Questions for VEEONE, INSIDER and Trikko

[F.K]

i think the best dfo interms of imparting and setting new benchmarks in professionalism has to be capt morgan felix. an upright professional who wouldnt toe to any pressure or fall prey to nepotism in the least, whcih culiminated when he rejected his own son thrice as a ilot candidate in pia while sitting in office. in a cuulture where "daddy will look after everything" ,one man stands out on principles. he introduced the whole discipline of CRM to pakistan aviation which was unheard of at that time and now forms the cornerstone of cockpit training. a legend for me in the true sense. later went on to establish airblue another promising airline which has found its share in very difficult times. he also steped down there when was made to do things that went against his inner morality. try and find me a man like him. the rest were just ordinary pilots made directors. after him if theres anyone i respect for respecting the dfo seat it is capt bakhtyar who walked out of ahmed saeeds office when he was asked to send f27 pilots to the b4 cutting open the career plan of pilots, a job asif reza gladly essayed later on.
as for FE jamote he has been acquitted by the court of law in a govt that is anti ppp. that in it self is the biggest proof of his innocence.a great professional and a good administrator. he might have chosen his sindhi fellows(pilots, admin staff,crew etc) but never lowered the bar on merit. all his appointments met the criterias that were preset, hence no charge against him stood.

[R.F.]

With due respect to Capt. Felix there must be something drastically amiss that he wouldn't allow his son to join the airline, secondly CRM was introduced in PIA not by him but by Capt. Amjad Faizi during his tenure as CP Corporate Safety and Capt. SS Zaman was then the DFO. It was Continental airlines that facilitated the initial courses until PIA had its own facilitators later on.

This is on record !


CRM is now a cornerstone of company training and not the sole domain of the flight deck, therefore its now aptly referred to as Crew Resourse Management, where all facets of the company integrate may it be the flight deck or the cabin crew, engineering etc.

[Airborne]

Dear FK,

I can assure you that FE Jamote knew nothing of professionalism......trust me on that

[F.K]

mind u it was capt felix who laid the foundation stone of CRM in pia. people who followed later simply carried out his work. that too is on record.since his son dint make it in the writtens he chose not to tamper with the marks which anyother man in his capacity would ve done unabashed. i think someone that has made his kind of contributions to aviation deserves atleast a pride of performance.
FE jamote lasted more than 2 years as DA. none of the arraignments that were levelled at him could be substantiated in a government that was bent on proving his corruption. professionalism or lack thereof is judged by events and not hearsay. he was acquitted and his appointments were not illegal as goes the courts verdict. where does corruption fit in to the picture. the guy was also an instructor on b4s and Chief Flt Engr Mannuals, a position that is given only to a breed of professionals.try being factual instead of slanderous.

[VEEONE]

Dear F.k review your facts again

Mr Jamote was the one who arranged copies of the written test of 95 cadet pilot AD to 15 or more candidates so they can cheat with ease, one of a guy name Hassan raza son of PPP MNA some how told his friends aboout the paper and helped them aswell that guy later was dropped in medical due to drugs issue many people can vouch for this story.
Any influential rapists and murders can get a jail free card in our society; corrupt politicians are ministers so please stop quoting the justice system.

[R.F.]

Felix was never involved in the CRM for sure. Pilots from his era never believed in CRM and in PIA they still don't. I know as I have been a member of that community for many............. years both on the right and the left seat and know the internal workings far too well.
like i said with due respect to capt. Felix it doesn't sound right what is being said about him not assisting his son because he went out of the way to help and assist his other close family member who is still in the airline and that please donot dispute since I wouldn't like to go any further on this forum to prove what I 'm stating is correct.

Anyway this not about Felix or any individual.

[F.K]

i know his professionalism stung many people. facts however dont change. you can go on dispreputing him but people who study the history of aviation will dub him a legend. lets not argue over this anymore.

veeone your accusations are speculative and devoid of factual content.

fe jamote inducted his sindhi bretheren because it was a ppp govt, but he did not let anyone in who failed to meet the criteras of selection. at a time when all charges against the ppp are still standing , this charge was dropped because not one irregularity could be corroborated.

lastly the kid who u rerefering to who failed his medical could ve used his hookups in the medical board too. it was ppp rule remember!!

[VEEONE]

F.K

Your own words now prove it, either you are sindhi or Jiyala who was given the same help or you must have influenced him through other means which he was notoriously known for kindly set record straight for this forum (how many FEs have gone to courts to prove there innocence and how many D.A s who had to face corruption cases in order to induct there Provincial bretheren.
I don’t have to check any where else “It was DFO Captain Zaman and later MD Tiwana along with many others, who named that Shining star FE JAMOTE responsible for all mismanagement in the induction and misappropriation of funds.

[Airborne]

FK,

I don't know about Jamote’s professionalism, but I can assure you that it was his lack of ability to perform things properly and his ineptitude approach towards his job that rather stung people. The batch of 1995 cadet pilots is a mere manifestation and vivid reflection of Jamote’s incompetency & ineptness. I personally know so many people who paid him millions of rupees to get inducted.

The factual position is quite incongruous and paradoxical to what you have pasted dude, but if you are interested to know the details, I can surely help you by providing more info on this. However, it will be indeed very nice if you could get your facts figured out.

Cheers, Airborne!

[F.K]

fe jamote stood trial and was exonerated. people that later followed were of the pml(n), and they needed to pass the bucket and rack up cases against the preceding govt. this blame game isnt new to pia politics.why dint his charges stand in court????? if i ask you who handed u the paper before pia took you in the burden of proof is on me to substantiate it with evidence. you say tha batch of 95 was incompetent, i say your batch is incompetent, its an unending rigamarole. what matters are facts.

[VEEONE]

Let’s not get into debate of the justice system of Pakistan. I’ve already mentioned in my previouse post, we live in country where the whole sitting cabinet is involved in some kind scandals and they are ruling us.

Explain me that statement of yours “fe jamote inducted his Sindhi brethren because it was a ppp govt” and then very conveniently you say “but he did not let anyone in who failed to meet the criteria’s of selection”.

You rightly said Fk History will judge him (INSHAAALAH) Let the people decide should a guy of this weak character who hired people on political compulsions or affiliations rather on merit????????????????
Be awarded what?? (Medal of Performance (on bribery),
This JAMOTE had not just ruined the career of many but severely damaged the morale of young competent pilots who were not inducted in PIA even though they cleared written test and interviews and yet were dropped because they either did not have 20lakhs to offer to him and to his other cahoots (Mr. 10%)

Most of those who did not make it in 95 found themselves over aged because PIA did not advertise for the posts of cadet pilots --------and the rest every body knows What Mr Asif raza did to FLTOPS he was incompetent DFO of the highest order but even he could not to stoop levels
Where you’re Favorite Mr. Jamote holds unprecedented superiority, and he will be remembered as some body who is answerable not only to ALLAH but to all of those who were force to leave there carrier as pilots, and I agree with you he should be awarded some kind of medal of disgrace.



I am a non political person I do believe both X premiers have been useless and so as present ones

Please do not defend people who have been responsible and actively involve in the devastation of this great Airline (PIA).

[F.K]

my post was partially deleted but let meexplain. the initial part was in reference to felixs professionalism. he must ve failed you like he did many others in their checks for this outpour of vindeatta. the debate stops here. he has already been accredited for the achievements i speak of. your saying anything wont change a thing. now i no what u have against aroosh. its sheer jealousy.

i have to point this out inspite of the fact that abbas is editing these posts just to stop you in your tracks. you can express an opinion but not give a verdict, because you are not qualified nor in the know of all the facts. the same thing was done when you picked on aroosh. even if his father did tip the scales in his favor it cannot be proven by you sitting at an arms length from the decision making corridors.
if the judiciary is partial should nt it be partial against govt adversorys, hence jamotes charges should have been proven. i can find you hundreds of people in the airline right now who look up to him as the reason their houses run. merit was not suspended yet an unprecendented quota of sindhis were inducted because it was a political compulsion.if you cant understand that i cant expect u to understand anything

[VEEONE]

If your comprehension ends at political compulsions over merit I found you arguments weak and nonstarter and as far as Mr. philanthropist (JAMOTE) is concern bending rules to accommodate brethren of sindh not at all justified, please get some education on Quota system first of all PIA comes under Ministry of defense which is above provincial jurisdiction hence quota apply as per the federation and Punjab gets the highest share which again is not justified but just want to straight the record .
Strange my so called jealousy for this Chap (AN) is definitely having an effect on your mental judgment.

[Airborne]

Dear FK,

Please explain me two things here, first of all, what does Felix or Jamote have anything to do with this topic and secondly, what has Veeone's reply got to do with AN's jealousy?

The reason why Abbas is editing remarks is not to stop anyone from his or her tracks, but rather to keep the dicussion productive and healthy for this forum. Its not just yours whose posts are being edited, even mine get edited when I get too blunt or bit harsh in reaction to yours......which I think is good for all of us.

Going back to your argument, you continue to defend Jamote, whom we all know how corrupt he had been. In one case, you have yourself admitted that he did favour his sindhi brethren but never inducted any incomptetent guy into PIA......from the way I look at it, by even preferring his sindhi brethern he basically violated and abused his authority, moreover, how on earth can that person be considered fair with regards to other things.......

When you tell others harshly what they say won't change anything and that their posts should be taken as their opinions and not verdicts, then you should also remember that rule is applicable to you too dude.

With regards to which batch of cadet pilots is most incompetent, you are absolutely right that facts speak for themselves. Everyone who belongs to aviation and PIA in particular knows how notorious batch of 95 has been; since you continue to turn a blind eye to this, I take it that either you are not from PIA or perhaps you are one of that batch.

Last but not least, Abbas, may I request you to lock this topic, because the gentleman who started this had few questions unanswered, and when many of us tried to satisfy him, he edited all of his posts and abandoned this topic by saying that none provided right answers......I don't see any reason why other topics should be discussed in this one.......

[Abbas Ali]

Posts considered personal attacks or offensive in nature are being edited or removed entirely.

Few members have adopted using rudeness and personal attacks as part of their postings on forum. Together we have to bring an end to this trend.

No one is stopped from expressing his views. Every forum member is given equal chance to express his views on any issue.

The rule is simple: To continue any discussion in constructive manner, posts should be relevant to the topic and everyone should express his/her views in professional and polite manner without personal attacks.

Topic locked.

Abbas