Questions for VEEONE, INSIDER and Trikko

[AN]

and then

[F.K]

as a matter of policy children of cockpit crew are given priority in airline inductions specifically related to cockpit jobs. however this doesnt transcend merit under any circumstances. pia crew that has strong clout can accomplish anything and this has been proven. wheter its interms of induction, promotion, executive assignments etc, this kind of nepotism is ubiquotous. as far as seniority is concerned let me just give you a flash back. when a small chunk of pia FEs converted to FOs in 1990 they retained their staff numbers and were compensated reasonably for the loss of seniority. a few fes who eventually got their cpl/ir AT PIAS EXPENSE(the whole peshawar flying club) was booked for their training, many decided to remain flight engineers after a sucsessful completion following some afterthoughts. they did not paypia a nicke and went back to their back seats since it suited their interests more. that is the way u treat professionals, and fes had clout in and out of the flt ops dept which ensured that the corporation and dept gave them an open deal . ALL FEs continued to draw FE salaries not only till the completion of their training but for a year after becoming operational on f27s along side a retirement package for their former jobs.the fact that this particulat aircraft engineer althought out side the directorate of flt ops dint reimburse pias training cost is immaterial because of his service. telling me that an aircraft engineer who works harder than you ll ever know shirked away from the workload of being a pilot is ridiculous. you need to start behaving and treating others with respect to earn some yor self. enough said!

[trikko]

Dear AN,

I think you need your dad to answer those question.

Now Answer will be in sequence:

1. Engineer was not a contract pilot like you and they are not bounded, as per the AIrline policy, Personal Policies chapter Recruitment, Reinstatement and Reimployment, chapter no 34.14.08 (Internal Selection)

2. Well that answer you will get it from your sweet daddy, And ask him when he was in the office what else use to happen in the office. Lot of changes, People had the questionaire before the test.

3. As i said earlier, instead of getting hired on Safarish you need to read company Policies, read chapter 34.15.02
"employees who selected internally will continue to draw their previously salary till they complete their training and redesignated as FO"

4. i dont know how you determine that engineer bypass his seniors, he was already senior to them

5. Well what did you mean by "if I", you actually did and as far as Trainee 6 nobody cares about him, we are saying its all wrong doing to bypass the seniority

6. Well i said Earlier that the captain is stupid and he should be fired from the job. Its the training department to figure out if the F/O is safe to fly. As far as i can tell the Captain seems to be incompetent

7. Well the question 7 did not make any sense so you need to elaborate the question.

[AN]

and

[Tango1]

Mr AN. YOu have become so audacious and reckless that you are actually naming people just to cover your black deeds. The fact of the matter is that you busted seniority and the same case is pending with Flt Ops Management.
To shift attention you are naming individuals w/o telling the forum the real stories. This tactic wont work and individuals all around would still be condemning you.
The first officer you named took permission from the other F/O through Chief pilot ATR to do his first flight. The same maybe be verified from Chief Pilot ATR and there was no violation.
The important point here is however that you busted seniority and as a result a guy remained cadet pilot for around 10 months while u were languishing in ill gotten gains.
Another thing is you keep mentioning the 5th guy who is not undergoing training due personal reasons but you keep failing to mention the 3rd cadet from pindi who you also bypassed while he had completed his 50 hours and was simply waiting for the check. So stop lying man, everyone here knows what really transpired.
Your bias is self evident and all i can do is wish engineers good luck.

[AN]

oh so engineers are myseteriously ALLOWED to bypass,
while other people arnt
hahahah
sorry
seems like the system is biased towards them
you have proven it yourself


thank you

[Airborne]

Mr. AN,

I had just been away for one day with no access to internet, and before I had left, I thought we had reverted back to the topic as per the advice of site administrator. But today when I logged in, I only found one thing, i.e. your stubborn attitude and egoistic approach to life has compelled you to drift back the topic to your own ridiculous arguments. Moreover, since people gave you so much bashing, you thought it to be more appropriate to open up another forum mentioning other forum members’ names.

Initially I really thought that you had made blunders by using your dad’s influence and you were only trying to hide them with lame excuses.

Since you are desperate to have answers to your stupid questions and despite the fact that you never answered mine, I have still decided to answer them for you by simply applying my common sense. Your questions are herewith marked in red font and are answered one by one.

 Why was trainee/engineer #1 allowed to go back to engineering without repaying the cost of training incurred

I think, you should be asking this question to DFO or MD PIA, not to us. Since you have a “papa” who is a 777 captain, I think he would be more influential to get the insights for you on this. It could be that he was as influential and arrogant as you seem to be.

 How did the marks on the technical mysteriously change overnight?

What makes you think it really happened at the first place? And if you firmly believe that it did happen, then I think you would be knowing better how it must have worked in PIA as your are more experienced in violating PIA’s rules and regulations, rather why don’t you share with us yourself.

 Why were engineers paid their engineering salary while training for flt ops? what about the financial advantage they had then?

Fist of all, as far as I know, engineers’ salary is less than that of pilots, secondly if your problem is why they weren’t being given stipend instead while receiving training, then you must wake up to see it for yourself that they were already permanent employees of PIA, and as per the rules, they had the right to withdraw salary equivalent to previously drawn one. This rule of salary related to inter-departmental transfers is applicable even in other companies around the world, including in mine.

 How did engineer #2 manage to bypass pilots an entire batch senior to him?

I am not sure whom are you referring to here; please be more explicit. Nevertheless, I would again request you to answer yourself on this and let us know as well how things work if you have a “papa” like yours to support you illegally.

 If I used contacts. what about trainee #6 who also bypassed the trainee #3 and #4? How did he manage to get cleared?

You are referring to your best buddy as trainee #6, namely Mr. Usman Chaudhry. If my memory serves me right, didn’t your daddy pressurize scheduling to give priority to you and your best buddy. It just takes common sense to answer this.


 If engineer #3 is so good, why was there a captain refusing to fly with him?

Somebody already answered it for you, but let me do the honors for you once again. The answer is “Because the captain himself is incompetent”. You should know Harvard’s school of thought, if a student fails to achieve a certain grade, the bigger failure goes to that person who actually failed to train or teach him/her well.

 If trainee #5 is so worried about being bypassed, why has he asked management to bypass him till further notice almost ONE YEAR ON, when contractual "bretheren" 6 positions after him have been cleared and become first officers?

Excuse me? I am not sure what you meant by this question. But then again, do you think we are advocates of Mr. Engineer #5? Why don’t you pick up the phone and ask him directly.

Stop making false accusations of others in a bid to cover yours. Your arguments are weak; you have no evidence to back them up and not to mention that you are up against rest of the pilot community. Some wise guy already pointed out to you in this forum that your daddy is not going to be in PIA for long.

My brotherly advice to you, please accept and acknowledge your blunders and apologize to whom you have bypassed and been unfair to. Trust me, by accepting mistakes will make you a better person and even a hero, because you need to have a bigger heart which is larger than life. You have a whole career ahead of you, so you need to bridge the gaps man, not widen them. You do that, and I give you my promise that I will be the first one to be your newest best buddy, to be there for you at the time of your need.

I am hopelessly hoping that you would get to the crux of my advice to you, but if you really do, you’ll better off. Trust me!!

[AN]

facts have been provided
and questions asked


but people refuse to answer them and avoid all my questions

you can PM me when you have found out the answers to what I have asked
and the truth

[jetranger]

again your answers are unsatisfactory

you cannot answer my question by telling me to ask other people

admit you dont have answers to why favors were done to engineers and that they did get away with alot.

like question 1

1. Why was trainee/engineer #1 allowed to go back to engineering without repaying the cost of training incurred

2.How did engineer #2 manage to bypass pilots an entire batch senior to him?
if youre not sure, im referring to faisal chaudry, who was of the 2005 batch, but was cleared on aTR before seemab jan of the 2001 batch.
explain that
and if you tell me he had permission from dfo etc,
well so did i and usman chaudry when we bypassed two seniors.
you should know that before anyone does their first filight, they have to get permission from dfo, cp training, and aicraft chief, which we got as they were familiar with the engineers case and how he was sick reporting flights so all three (DFO CP training and CP F27) approved not just mine, but usman chaudrys as well.
So basicaly whatever faisal chaudry did i.e. bypass a senior with the pemission of hte relevant in charges, we did as well
so either we are all doing some kinda back door action or eveyrone is legit

frankly if the dfo, cp training and fleet chief allowed us to bypass someone senior they must have had very good reason for it (WHICH I HAVE ALEADY STATED NUMEROUS TIMES) and thats all i need. your word is useless and you wish you were one of these people who had the authority to make decisions like that
sadly youre not

Can we not agree to disagree!

[FULLTHRUST]

2.How did engineer #2 manage to bypass pilots an entire batch senior to him?

Very simple,
1. he is a permanent employee, unlike you, and his P# would be senior among the whole lot in the senior batch, and in PIA seniority goes by P #s

2. Engineers are a better breed. (not the licensed techs of PIA, and please dont call them engineers, they are technicians)

[AN]

For Your Information

In the last two batches, for contract pilots,

P numbers are assigned randomly upon joining

seniority is then given as per your technical marks

so you can have people with later P numbers being senior

Fo example in the 2005 batch, P number 61850 is junior to P numbers 61851, 61852, 61855, 61856

[VEEONE]

Dear AN

I admit my little innocent mistake by responding to you initially I thought you would understand my last post which I (Sarcastically told you to open a new topic for your grievance which was unexpected that you actually would do) my point was to leave this topic (batch of 79)alone, and the kind of a thrashing you got from almost every body, as reasonable person I thought you would probably not stretch it any further but to my utter disappointment now I am even start thinking how much your father (777) Captain must have influenced the people of MASROOR AIRBASE to have you cleared the psychometric test ,why is the message not getting through your thick skull DEAR AN no body is interested in you fabricated TOPGUN STYLE achievements. people have already explained you but probably you are expecting some in your favor, ok her you go Mr. AN you and your pal Mr. UC are intellectually genius and all captains out there in PIA are dying to have there flights scheduled with you that’s why you were pulled up in the seniority and not any other reason SIR WE ADMIT ANY THING ELSE, any other demands so you leave every body alone.


Please contribute some positive in the forums; you have become an embarrassment

[FULLTHRUST]

For Your Information

In the last two batches, for contract pilots,

P numbers are assigned randomly upon joining

seniority is then given as per your technical marks

so you can have people with later P numbers being senior

Fo example in the 2005 batch, P number 61850 is junior to P numbers 61851, 61852, 61855, 61856

ok
Is That Clear?

are you done putting your "simple" but completely false answers in wrong places?
Please stop contributing BS

the p # 61850 would have done some screw-ups, thats why he is junior to others.

In PIA seniorty goes by p#. You dont have any f****** clue what those engineers are. Their p # are in 52000s. It is just your mere thought, being a son of a senior pilot of pia, that you are the best. In fact just try to cool yourself down and listen to the majority.

By the way, you are a kid, and that too full of BS. You dont have any idea what you are doing here. Trust me you will have it in very near future. Dont worry.

By the way how do you react in the cockpit? If your behaviour is in the same fashion, you are a flight safety hazard!!!

[babyjet]

ok i dont know any one here neither am i interested in finding out who they are. and i guess other members are , too, not interested in digging up names as well- except ONE. i also know this thread was opened for three forum members and the questions were addressed directly to them. at first, i thought i could hold on to my eagerness but now i cant hold on anymore in finding out WHAT exactly does this guy AN want ? i dont even know u man and i am 100 % sure many of the members dont know each other as well. but what has pi**** me off is your arrogant behavior. i mean reading your posts gives me , may be others as well, an idea of what kind of a person you are. i ve got nothing against you but you are not even willing to accept EVEN a single fact among so many told. i mean dont you think its kind of arrogant enough for you not to admit what others are saying and believe just what you think is right ? may be its the way it is but some times it is not ! some times we actually are wrong and we know it but we fail to admit it. denial. do yourself a big favor by stop accusing others. like i said before, NO ONE here is interested in wasting his/her time on accusations. but some times this wastage is crucial in being fair to others as well. and we all are humans. if you will blame some one, you have to prepare for answers as well.

[737NG]

Mr.Fullthrust
P numbers are not a representation of seniority for pilots

maybe thats how its done with other departments of pia or with engineering, however for pilots after recieving their P numbers their seniority is decided upon the marks each pilot of a particular batch recieves in his technical, and where two ppl have the same marks, they one whose older, is declared senior.