Would a A340 be good for PIA

[PIA330]

This is a crippled national airline that serves an underdeveloped market where only a small majority can afford air travel we are talking about. It is inappropriate to even dream about acquiring an A380.

I understand PIA will never get a A380, but if Mian Mansha is going to bid for PIA. I hope he has a top class airline part of his consortium.

[HassanKhan]

A380s, A350s, competing against ME3, you guys seem to be overestimating the power of Privatization. The most that we could see in the short term would be regaining of domestic market share by inducting new efficient jets (possibly A32N with fresh capital?) and wet leasing some widebodies to increase frequencies to proven LH markets. Mian Mansha or Elon Musk, no one would want to overinvest in a broken business until more confidence in it is gained.

[rvlhassan]

This is a crippled national airline that serves an underdeveloped market where only a small majority can afford air travel we are talking about. It is inappropriate to even dream about acquiring an A380.

I understand PIA will never get a A380, but if Mian Mansha is going to bid for PIA. I hope he has a top class airline part of his consortium.

And I think that's too far away to think about. This airline needs to focus on survival. Fix the overwhelming issues (i.e. having an embarrassing large amount of the fleet either dead, inactive, or cannibalized), then let's focus on having a 'top class airline'. In the short term, in fact even in the medium term, it is a childish, unrealistic and implausible notion to put forward.

[AviationLover2020]

This is a crippled national airline that serves an underdeveloped market where only a small majority can afford air travel we are talking about. It is inappropriate to even dream about acquiring an A380.

I understand PIA will never get a A380, but if Mian Mansha is going to bid for PIA. I hope he has a top class airline part of his consortium.

I don’t know where all this ridiculous talk about Mian Mansha as some kind of aviation saviour is coming from. He’s hardly Elon Musk in terms of wealth, and has no credible experience in turning any failing airline around. In fact, he has almost no experience in running an airline at all, even in good times. He is not a specialist in turnarounds or restricting, and should hardly be viewed as some magical entity who is the answer to every problem PIA faces.

In any case, even turnaround investors almost never inject their own wealth into a failing company. They rely on debt leverage and cost cutting/efficiencies to turn it around. So expecting that somehow Mian Mansha’s personal wealth will have any affect on PIA is absurd.

At the very best, all that should be expected of privatisation is that the airline will stop operating unprofitable routes and perhaps modestly improve their fleet safety. Ideas about a sudden inflow of brand new planes or some magical regeneration of the cabins is unrealistic.

[Aviation]

I really do think if Manchester/Birmingham and London flights started, PIA could get back on its feet again, but sadly, as of yet that is not possible. I don’t know why British Transport is being so problematic, if United Kingdom was in Europe still, PIA flights would’ve opened by now, because the European Aviation Safety Agency have opened the flights to Europe, I am still confused from the actual reason why British Transport hasn’t lifted the ban off Pakistani Airlines, what problem can the British transport see that EASA can’t?
To me it seems like they don’t want the airline back in UK and they keep dragging the meeting dates along, I remember reading the flights are scheduled to start in December 2024, then moved to March 28th, and now they declined to unlift the ban. ALSO, people are saying it’s because of the planes missing tire or the plane landing on the inoperative runway at Lahore, if THIS IS the case, why didn’t EASA stop Paris flights? There’s definitely something more to why the British transport hasn’t allowed them to operate in their skies.

[HassanKhan]

I really do think if Manchester/Birmingham and London flights started, PIA could get back on its feet again, but sadly, as of yet that is not possible. I don’t know why British Transport is being so problematic, if United Kingdom was in Europe still, PIA flights would’ve opened by now, because the European Aviation Safety Agency have opened the flights to Europe, I am still confused from the actual reason why British Transport hasn’t lifted the ban off Pakistani Airlines, what problem can the British transport see that EASA can’t?
To me it seems like they don’t want the airline back in UK and they keep dragging the meeting dates along, I remember reading the flights are scheduled to start in December 2024, then moved to March 28th, and now they declined to unlift the ban. ALSO, people are saying it’s because of the planes missing tire or the plane landing on the inoperative runway at Lahore, if THIS IS the case, why didn’t EASA stop Paris flights? There’s definitely something more to why the British transport hasn’t allowed them to operate in their skies.

From what I know, they haven't completely ruled the case out they have just delayed the decision.

[PIA330]

This is a crippled national airline that serves an underdeveloped market where only a small majority can afford air travel we are talking about. It is inappropriate to even dream about acquiring an A380.

I understand PIA will never get a A380, but if Mian Mansha is going to bid for PIA. I hope he has a top class airline part of his consortium.

I don’t know where all this ridiculous talk about Mian Mansha as some kind of aviation saviour is coming from. He’s hardly Elon Musk in terms of wealth, and has no credible experience in turning any failing airline around. In fact, he has almost no experience in running an airline at all, even in good times. He is not a specialist in turnarounds or restricting, and should hardly be viewed as some magical entity who is the answer to every problem PIA faces.

In any case, even turnaround investors almost never inject their own wealth into a failing company. They rely on debt leverage and cost cutting/efficiencies to turn it around. So expecting that somehow Mian Mansha’s personal wealth will have any affect on PIA is absurd.

At the very best, all that should be expected of privatisation is that the airline will stop operating unprofitable routes and perhaps modestly improve their fleet safety. Ideas about a sudden inflow of brand new planes or some magical regeneration of the cabins is unrealistic.

It will take time, it won't happen in a second. After Privatization, it will take maybe about 1 or 2 months to transition the current management to the new management. Then we have to get rid of employees, they will be a lot small steps to take. Things will go in a sequence, Mian Mansha has experience in the Aviation Industry. They own Pakistan Aviators & Aviation Pvt Ltd, the management is former PIA Pilots and board members.

pk.linkedin.com/company/pakistan-aviators-&-aviation-pvt-ltd-

[AviationLover2020]

It will take time, it won't happen in a second. After Privatization, it will take maybe about 1 or 2 months to transition the current management to the new management. Then we have to get rid of employees, they will be a lot small steps to take. Things will go in a sequence, Mian Mansha has experience in the Aviation Industry. They own Pakistan Aviators & Aviation Pvt Ltd, the management is former PIA Pilots and board members.

pk.linkedin.com/company/pakistan-aviators-&-aviation-pvt-ltd-

My point still stands. Pakistan Aviators has nothing in common with the financial and business position that PIA is in. It is a flight school and ground services company, which is a wholly different domain than running a mid-sized airline. Even on a good day, the overlap between the two domains is minimal. In reality, these are not good days, so the overlap is even smaller.

The type of major turnaround you are expecting would be plausible if the investors were aviation turnaround specialists. In Australia, Bain Capital (which specialises in distressed turnarounds) helped save Virgin Australia from bankruptcy. They, however, had experience in such turnarounds - and had a good deal of industry knowledge. TATA has a similar story in India.

As an above commenter said, even in the best turnarounds, the short-medium term aim is survival, not competition with the ME3. The best case scenario (and one which will take several years, if not decades) is that PIA becomes a self-sufficient mid-sized national airline with a modest but safe fleet, and relatively decent service. Ideas that PIA will somehow be able to have private suites in club class or some world leading product in economy are childish and unrealistic.

[PIA330]

It will take time, it won't happen in a second. After Privatization, it will take maybe about 1 or 2 months to transition the current management to the new management. Then we have to get rid of employees, they will be a lot small steps to take. Things will go in a sequence, Mian Mansha has experience in the Aviation Industry. They own Pakistan Aviators & Aviation Pvt Ltd, the management is former PIA Pilots and board members.

pk.linkedin.com/company/pakistan-aviators-&-aviation-pvt-ltd-

My point still stands. Pakistan Aviators has nothing in common with the financial and business position that PIA is in. It is a flight school and ground services company, which is a wholly different domain than running a mid-sized airline. Even on a good day, the overlap between the two domains is minimal. In reality, these are not good days, so the overlap is even smaller.

The type of major turnaround you are expecting would be plausible if the investors were aviation turnaround specialists. In Australia, Bain Capital (which specialises in distressed turnarounds) helped save Virgin Australia from bankruptcy. They, however, had experience in such turnarounds - and had a good deal of industry knowledge. TATA has a similar story in India.

As an above commenter said, even in the best turnarounds, the short-medium term aim is survival, not competition with the ME3. The best case scenario (and one which will take several years, if not decades) is that PIA becomes a self-sufficient mid-sized national airline with a modest but safe fleet, and relatively decent service. .

We have the Arif Habib and YB Holdings, non of them have experience in Aviation either. I will say this again, the 3rd bidder will be a surprise one with holding huge influence with no experience in Aviation too (that could be Mian Mansha maybe), or some other company. I agree with you, at this time its about survival. Probably in 2 or 3 years we can go towards competition, we need to first clean up the mess of 35 years. Cleaning that mess is going to be strict, making up for those 35 years. That's going to take 6 months to a year. When I mean the mess of 35 years, its loss making and so much other factors. "Ideas that PIA will somehow be able to have private suites in club class or some world leading product in economy are childish and unrealistic", that will take time. We need to refurbish our cabins too, if you go on TikTok you will see so much videos of people making curse words of the condition of the cabin. The Airline needs to meet international standards, what's the point of the buyer to spend about $100 million to $300 million and including injecting $500 million to make the airline profitable. It will be a gradual process.

[Aviation]

I really do think if Manchester/Birmingham and London flights started, PIA could get back on its feet again, but sadly, as of yet that is not possible. I don’t know why British Transport is being so problematic, if United Kingdom was in Europe still, PIA flights would’ve opened by now, because the European Aviation Safety Agency have opened the flights to Europe, I am still confused from the actual reason why British Transport hasn’t lifted the ban off Pakistani Airlines, what problem can the British transport see that EASA can’t?
To me it seems like they don’t want the airline back in UK and they keep dragging the meeting dates along, I remember reading the flights are scheduled to start in December 2024, then moved to March 28th, and now they declined to unlift the ban. ALSO, people are saying it’s because of the planes missing tire or the plane landing on the inoperative runway at Lahore, if THIS IS the case, why didn’t EASA stop Paris flights? There’s definitely something more to why the British transport hasn’t allowed them to operate in their skies.

From what I know, they haven't completely ruled the case out they have just delayed the decision.

Thats what they've been doing for 6 months now... I can't wait for PIA to fly to Manchester again, I could always see it on arrival descending and making its final turn into Manchester Airport at low altitudes of around 2,500ft on a clear day. I mostly use to see AP-BHW and AP-BGL arriving and departing Manchester Airport, sadly, both of them now inoperative... Wish they bought AP-BHW and AP-BGL back... flew on them in the early 2010s.

[planefan2003]

I really do think if Manchester/Birmingham and London flights started, PIA could get back on its feet again, but sadly, as of yet that is not possible. I don’t know why British Transport is being so problematic, if United Kingdom was in Europe still, PIA flights would’ve opened by now, because the European Aviation Safety Agency have opened the flights to Europe, I am still confused from the actual reason why British Transport hasn’t lifted the ban off Pakistani Airlines, what problem can the British transport see that EASA can’t?
To me it seems like they don’t want the airline back in UK and they keep dragging the meeting dates along, I remember reading the flights are scheduled to start in December 2024, then moved to March 28th, and now they declined to unlift the ban. ALSO, people are saying it’s because of the planes missing tire or the plane landing on the inoperative runway at Lahore, if THIS IS the case, why didn’t EASA stop Paris flights? There’s definitely something more to why the British transport hasn’t allowed them to operate in their skies.

From what I know, they haven't completely ruled the case out they have just delayed the decision.

Thats what they've been doing for 6 months now... I can't wait for PIA to fly to Manchester again, I could always see it on arrival descending and making its final turn into Manchester Airport at low altitudes of around 2,500ft on a clear day. I mostly use to see AP-BHW and AP-BGL arriving and departing Manchester Airport, sadly, both of them now inoperative... Wish they bought AP-BHW and AP-BGL back... flew on them in the early 2010s.

Same I used to live close to Manchester and see PIA daily around 2000-3000ft over my house and then make the final turn onto Runway 23R! What a time

[PIA330]

I really do think if Manchester/Birmingham and London flights started, PIA could get back on its feet again, but sadly, as of yet that is not possible. I don’t know why British Transport is being so problematic, if United Kingdom was in Europe still, PIA flights would’ve opened by now, because the European Aviation Safety Agency have opened the flights to Europe, I am still confused from the actual reason why British Transport hasn’t lifted the ban off Pakistani Airlines, what problem can the British transport see that EASA can’t?
To me it seems like they don’t want the airline back in UK and they keep dragging the meeting dates along, I remember reading the flights are scheduled to start in December 2024, then moved to March 28th, and now they declined to unlift the ban. ALSO, people are saying it’s because of the planes missing tire or the plane landing on the inoperative runway at Lahore, if THIS IS the case, why didn’t EASA stop Paris flights? There’s definitely something more to why the British transport hasn’t allowed them to operate in their skies.

From what I know, they haven't completely ruled the case out they have just delayed the decision.

Thats what they've been doing for 6 months now... I can't wait for PIA to fly to Manchester again, I could always see it on arrival descending and making its final turn into Manchester Airport at low altitudes of around 2,500ft on a clear day. I mostly use to see AP-BHW and AP-BGL arriving and departing Manchester Airport, sadly, both of them now inoperative... Wish they bought AP-BHW and AP-BGL back... flew on them in the early 2010s.

I remember a 6 years ago, I had a layover in London Heathrow and I saw PIA parked at the gate. Last time I saw PIA on its UK Flights .