Pakistan-New York Flights

Amaad Lone · Post by **Amaad Lone** » Tue Jul 03, 2007 10:52 am

The schedule shows only three weekly flights between Pakistan and New York.

With Islamabad getting nothing.

Reducing New York flights during peak season does not sound to good, or is PIA not getting the loads???

Did PIA cut New York flights to provide aircraft for Birmingham??

javed · Post by **javed** » Tue Jul 03, 2007 1:32 pm

Same for Chicago-Islamabad flight.

This is good though. PIA has finally realized that Islamabad was jusitified only with domestic hop continuing to Karachi + transit traffic perhaps for PEW and LYP+MUX. There was no point for running flights just to please the Baboos. The Islamabad population of less than half a million (smaller than Missiissauga = Toronto suburb where YYZ is actually located) can connect via Lahore or Karachi using domestic flights. PEW and LYP Pax were taking domestic flights any way in many cases.

Since loads destined purely for RWP are extremely low from North America, all flights must go non-stop either to Lahore or Karachi and terminate there. Domestic hops of all international flights need to be done away with. It is too expensive to run empty Karachi+North domestic hops.

PIA must NOT have more than two hubs at any cost. With Air Blue now going international and headquartered in Islamabad, RWP can be left just for Air Blue and Air Blue operate solely from RWP, while PIA focuses on the bigger market. Baboos, any way, prefer BA over PIA for West bound traffic. They violate the GoP mandatory rules for travel by PIA only as far as possible.

Jacobin777 · Post by **Jacobin777** » Tue Jul 03, 2007 2:39 pm

On their schedule I see 3x/weekly New York Pakistan, but I still do see 1x/weekly flights to ISB, as well as the 1x/weekly flight to ISB from ORD.

That being said, even though ISB is a small city, because of the wealth, embassies, businesses, ect. it is considered to be higher yielding...maybe with the new Chairman, the number crunchers figured that it wasn't worth it.

Too bad SIN and Moscow are ending....but hopefully they will start other routes....they seriously need to look into LAX.......they were supposed to start that route 2 years ago....

Pakistan-MAN-LAX or Pakistan-China-LAX I think could be a good money maker....

Looks like the re-introduction of SIN to Pakistan hasn't helped any....

That being said...PK need to focus on one hub and then offer seamless connections to other locations....

javed · Post by **javed** » Tue Jul 03, 2007 3:02 pm

Agree, KHI-PEK-LAX and LHE-PEK-LAX can be extremely profitable. But SFO should also not be over looked. They got the 5th freedom rights at PEK, why not use them. Lot of Pakistani professionals from SFO travel to PEK.

At one point PIA used interline with EVA for SFO/LAX. Now if planes are still a problem, they should code-share/interline via PEK with China Air or UA/TG. Time table will have to be adjusted to have 60 minute conection time max at PEK in such a case.

Jacobin777 · Post by **Jacobin777** » Tue Jul 03, 2007 5:22 pm

javed wrote:Agree, KHI-PEK-LAX and LHE-PEK-LAX can be extremely profitable. But SFO should also not be over looked. They got the 5th freedom rights at PEK, why not use them. Lot of Pakistani professionals from SFO travel to PEK.

At one point PIA used interline with EVA for SFO/LAX. Now if planes are still a problem, they should code-share/interline via PEK with China Air or UA/TG. Time table will have to be adjusted to have 60 minute conection time max at PEK in such a case.

..interlining or code-sharing with other carriers would be very smart of PK..if they add LAX/SFO then they should definitely add AA or UA as codeshare partners.

It seems this management is a bit more serious than the previous management..lets hope they are smart enough...

BD's MAN-ORD is one of their most profitable, if not their most profitable route in their entire system, and >80% is not O&D but rather codeshare connections via UA......

javed · Post by **javed** » Tue Jul 03, 2007 6:41 pm

That's BD. PIA is loosing money just like its sister - BG due to exact same reasons. PK can't compete BD - never ever!

PIA is only contributing 6 Million Pounds to UK economy from MAN stopover. It is earning negative profits due to MAN stopover, however.

Moin · Post by **Moin** » Tue Jul 03, 2007 7:31 pm

They might increase the frequency once the 747's and A310's are back online in the EU.

Its unfortunate that in this day and age where just about every international airline is aiming for daily flights to all their major destinations that PIA is still in the 3 to 4 times a week category.

javed · Post by **javed** » Wed Jul 04, 2007 3:46 pm

Moin wrote:They might increase the frequency once the 747's and A310's are back online in the EU.

Its unfortunate that in this day and age where just about every international airline is aiming for daily flights to all their major destinations that PIA is still in the 3 to 4 times a week category.

3 or 4 is too much for PIA. Most PIA destinations are 2x max. Countless 1x PIA destinations. They are kidding. PIA is not serious about its core business.

They can't fill the planes because they dont know how to do it. And they do not have incentive to be more productive. 100% of PIA ground staff needs abrupt lay-off and replaced with better ones with better business approach over night. If PIA can not do it abruptly, file bankruptcy protection and do it. Bankruptcy protection will save the airline from costly lay offs.

Moin · Post by **Moin** » Wed Jul 04, 2007 5:56 pm

PIA is obviously not doing its homework if it can't fill its a/c up. Their marketing dept is doing jack all and their PR is just about hopeless. They need to majorly sort out their marketing dept and advertising campaign if they ever can hope of filling a/c for daily flights to Europe and the US.

Jacobin777 · Post by **Jacobin777** » Wed Jul 04, 2007 8:55 pm

PK's ORD-MAN-ORD runs around 60% load factor..BD's MAN-ORD-MAN runs around 75% load factor.....it is one of, if not BD's most profitable route....the reason is not because of O&D, >85% of the flight is code-shared with UA to destinations such as MCO, LAX, etc.

If PK codeshares with say AA and advertises the route (its actually cheaper to fly on PK), they could do very well on that route...

This is just one of many examples of PK's marketing and route developing, etc. department which isn't doing its job......

PK must join an alliance to be profitable in the North American routes......

EDIT:

AA's ORD-MAN is at 88% load factor and MAN-ORD 82.5% load factor

Moin · Post by **Moin** » Thu Jul 05, 2007 9:23 pm

I don't think alliances like Star or One World would ever extend membership to an airline like PIA. Their only hope is codesharing.

PIAinORD · Post by **PIAinORD** » Thu Jul 05, 2007 11:35 pm

is PIA running their US-Pakistan flights nonstop? I've been on PIA for running KHI-PVG-LAX for a long time now. What they really need to do is just settle on a hub, either KHI or LHE (LHE might be a better option since its more protected than KHI which has become an Emirates strong hold) and feed flights to other Pakistani cities from their US flights.

Jacobin777 · Post by **Jacobin777** » Fri Jul 06, 2007 6:15 am

Moin wrote:I don't think alliances like Star or One World would ever extend membership to an airline like PIA. Their only hope is codesharing.

...IF have a viable business plan, I could see them joining an alliance....and as mentioned, at least codesharing would help quite a bit...

javed wrote:That's BD. PIA is loosing money just like its sister - BG due to exact same reasons. PK can't compete BD - never ever!

PIA is only contributing 6 Million Pounds to UK economy from MAN stopover. It is earning negative profits due to MAN stopover, however.

...again, if they advertise their flights and have codesharing partners, they can certainly top BD....or at least come close..at the very least, they can increase their load factor on said routes...

Amaad Lone · Post by **Amaad Lone** » Fri Jul 06, 2007 8:09 am

I think PIA needs to operate a daily 777-200ER service into New York.

Cancel Chicago flights, and concentrate on one hub in the US for now, and offer transfers out of JFK on a daily basis.

PIA use to have a fare agreement with American Airlines and Delta, which pretty much covered all of the US.

This way passengers traveling to any part of the US will have a daily PIA flight going to Pakistan from JFK.

Karachi-Shannon-New York 2 weekly
Lahore-Shannon-New York 3 weekly
Islamabad-Shannon-New York 2 weekly

Returning using the same route. PIA should skip Manchaster, and use Shannon as a technical stop.

Once these flights start showing good load factors, PIA can once again think about flights into Chicago, Houston and Washington DC.

As for the non-stop service, I think that is not possible.

With the exsisting crew shortage on the 777 fleet, and the rest requirements after an Ulta Long Haul Flight, to much crew would be blocked.

PIA should make New York a daily flight, and make it a hub in the US.

javed · Post by **javed** » Fri Jul 06, 2007 2:36 pm

Amaad Lone wrote:I think PIA needs to operate a daily 777-200ER service into New York.

As for the non-stop service, I think that is not possible.

PIA should make New York a daily flight, and make it a hub in the US.

JFK to KHI/RWP/LHE is not banned. LHE-US Non-stop is allowed by FAA. Non stop flights from KHI and RWP only are banned by FAA. PIA and CAA are denying this facility to Lahore just for own personal ego(es).

Agree on daily non-stop service to JFK.