Karachiites suffer due to rescheduling of PIA flights to USA

[Abbas Ali]

Rescheduling of PIA’s flights to New York and Houston

KARACHI: The rescheduling of Pakistan International Airlines (PIA) lone Karachi-New York direct flight via Lahore/Islamabad has been resented by Advisor to the Sindh Chief Minister on Information and Media Salahuddin Haider.

In the new timetable issued by PIA, all the five flights will now go to New York via Lahore/Islamabad.

A PIA spokesman, when approached for comments, said that “load factor” was the main consideration for rescheduling the direct Karachi-New York flight via Lahore/Islamabad. The direct flights were not carrying full load, he said.

Paradoxically, however, the situation tells a different story. It has generally been observed that those traveling to New York find it difficult to get confirmed seats. Whenever they approach any travel agency or local PIA booking offices, they face a waiting period of two to four weeks for getting a confirmed seat.

Salahuddin Haider said that the city of Karachi, which was the economic hub of the country, attracting maximum number of businessmen and tourists from abroad and reporting an ever-increasing number of departures of families to the US during vacations needed proper attention by the national carrier.

All the five flights to New York, he said, were being routed via Lahore and Islamabad entailing at least five hours cumbersome boredom for passengers traveling from Karachi to New York or Houston.

He requested the PIA Chairman to do away with the injustice with the people of Karachi and order at least once a week direct flight from Karachi to New York and Karachi to Houston. This will save precious traveling time of passengers and help generate more traffic because, at present, PIA was loosing a substantial number of passengers to foreign airlines.

Until last year, PIA used to increase the number of flights to Houston to two per week during the summer vacations – June and onwards – to cope with holiday traffic rush, but so far there was no announcement in this regard from PIA.

Of the two flights, one used to fly to Houston via Manchester and the other via Lahore and Manchester. If calculated in terms of time, from door-to-door, the passengers had to brave on Karachi-Lahore-Manchester flight at least 30 hours of ordeal.

Carriers from Gulf countries like Emirates and others, taking advantage of this situation, are now offering direct flights to destinations like London, New York and Houston from their hubs with immediate onward connections available for their destinations.

Source: Business Recorder (June 16, 2006)

[smarties]

PIA really need to start concentrating on Karachi, before they completely loose out to Gulf carriers.

[Amaad Lone]

PIA really need to start concentrating on Karachi, before they completely loose out to Gulf carriers

PIA has already lost the Karachi traffic to Emirates.

Most PIA flights to North America and Europe are only catering to traffic from Lahore and Islamabad.

Major european destinations, Frankfurt, Amsterdam, Rome, Paris, Istanbul Birmingham and Glasgow are not even connected to Karachi.

Out of the five flights to New York, 3 are operated by 777s and two by 747 combis, or around 1500 seats per week. I wonder how many passengers are boarding these flights from Karachi versus Islamabad and Lahore?

[Adnan Anwar]

This tells you they need an aircrafts that offers the greater range with small load so that passengers from Karachi can still be serviced etc. My pick would be 787-800.

[smarties]

PIA has already lost the Karachi traffic to Emirates.

Most PIA flights to North America and Europe are only catering to traffic from Lahore and Islamabad.

Major european destinations, Frankfurt, Amsterdam, Rome, Paris, Istanbul Birmingham and Glasgow are not even connected to Karachi.

Out of the five flights to New York, 3 are operated by 777s and two by 747 combis, or around 1500 seats per week. I wonder how many passengers are boarding these flights from Karachi versus Islamabad and Lahore?

PIA hasn't lost it business just to Emirates. GF, EY, and QR are taking big chunks as well as their fares and products are more competative than Emirates.

PIA from Karachi still serve major cities like London (3 non-stop flights a week, and 2 of those 3 are on 743's.) Toronto is served 3 times a week including one non-stop, 10 flights a week to Manchester (just 1 non-stop though.) Also JED and RUH are are very frequent from KHI as well. So PIA still has a hold in KHI.

[Amaad Lone]

All flights to North America should be operated by the 777 fleet.

New York should go up to six weekly flights.
Chicago should go up to three weekly flights.
Toronto should remain at three weekly, but a change is routing.
Houston should close down, or increase in frequency.

These 12 weekly North American flights can easily be covered by 4 777s leaving the 5th for other destinations.

Karachi-Frankfurt-New York 2 weekly
Lahore-Frankfurt-New York 2 weekly
Islamabad-Frankfurt-New York 2 weekly

Karachi-Paris-Chicago weekly
Lahore-Paris-Chicago weekly
Islamabad-Paris-Chicago weekly

Karachi-Toronto weekly
Lahore-Toronto weekly
Islamabad-Toronto weekly

I think PIA should switch the North American flights via Frankfurt and Paris, leaving Manchaster for only terminating flights.

Good frequency and non-stop flights into Frankfurt might pull in some european traffic (that can use Frankfurt as transit point) which otherwise would have gone to Emirates or Qatar.

Basically a code share/alliance between PIA and Lufthansa.

A central european stop is better then a UK stopover.

[Amaad Lone]

PIA from Karachi still serve major cities like London (3 non-stop flights a week, and 2 of those 3 are on 743's.) Toronto is served 3 times a week including one non-stop, 10 flights a week to Manchester (just 1 non-stop though.) Also JED and RUH are are very frequent from KHI as well. So PIA still has a hold in KHI.

Karachi getting 3 non-stop 747 flights into London is no big deal, considering Islamabad gets four and even Lahore gets three weekly 747-300s.

Second of all the ten flights into Manchaster are basically the stopover flights for the North American flights, most of which are getting their majority of their passengers from Lahore and Islamabad.

As for Toronto 3 weekly Karachi flights, well one is via Lahore and the other via Islamabad, and guess where their load is orginating from.

The main question is why are these 777 (North American) flights not orginating from either Lahore or Islamabad, and only Karachi??

Well something to do with the engineering base in Karachi and their MQM backed union who does not want maintainance work moved to Lahore or Islamabad.

As for nonstop flights into Jeddah and Riaydh flights, well don't forget Dhahran, Mumbai, Dehli, Dhaka, Kathmandu, Colombo, Dubai, Abu Dhabi, Kuwait, Muscat, Bahrain, Doha, Moscow, Singapore, and Kuala Lumpur. All getting direct non-stop flights from Karachi.

It is sad that once the mighty hub of PIA has been reduced to a center for regional flights.

Don't get me wrong, I wish PIA could revive Karachi to its former glory, but don't see that happening in the near future.

PIA management (plus marketing) does not have the balls or the will to face the challanges that Middle Eastern carriers are putting up.

Open skies into Jinnah International Airport has killed PIA traffic out of Karachi.

[smarties]

Karachi getting 3 non-stop 747 flights into London is no big deal, considering Islamabad gets four and even Lahore gets three weekly 747-300s.

yeah so KHI gets the same amounts of flights to LHR as LHE-LHR, so PIA has not given up on the major cities. JFK gets many fkights from KHI as well.


I don't think weekly flights to europe from KHI will make any difference. It has be a be mimimum twice weekly for it to work. YYZ should remain serving 3 times a week from KHI.

I do agree with you about the American flights that they should be routed through other European cities, as MAN also requires transit visas. However, there is quite alot of traffic to/from MAN to Pakistan and i think that the IAH and ORD flights should be routed through CDG or FRA. And JFK should remain routed via MAN to cater for the excess MAN-PAK-MAN sector.

[SteveUK]

The main problem with PIA in Karachi now, I believe, is frequency of flights compared to Emirates, Qatar, Gulf, even Etihad. Emirates flies 5 times daily to 2 London Airports, and Qatar 4 times daily to LHR and LGW. The frequencies to CDG, FRA, ZRH, MAN, BHX, GLA, - not forgetting JFK, are much greater, and this seems to appeal more to the travelling public than a 3-times weekly direct flight. It is virtually no hassle from Karachi to nip across to DXB or DOH from where they can join a whole array of flights to almost every corner of the globe. Obviously the flights from LHE and ISB to DXB or DOH are longer and therefore the end-to-end journey times are not so attractive. Without a hefty increase in flights from KHI to UK/Mainland Europe/USA/Canada I'm not sure that PIA can combat the Gulf carriers' dominance at Karachi. Whatever anyone says about slots at LHR - it never fails to amaze me how some carriers still, even now, manage to secure additional slots there. Air New Zealand recently got an extra daily slot to launch it's new double-daily service to AKL, and whenever EK or QR wants slots they don't seem to encounter too many obstacles. PIA should lean a lot more heavily on UK CAA for extra slots - even 4 per week would give PIA a double daily Pakistan to London service.

[Jacobin777]

All flights to North America should be operated by the 777 fleet.

New York should go up to six weekly flights.
Chicago should go up to three weekly flights.
Toronto should remain at three weekly, but a change is routing.
Houston should close down, or increase in frequency.

These 12 weekly North American flights can easily be covered by 4 777s leaving the 5th for other destinations.

Karachi-Frankfurt-New York 2 weekly
Lahore-Frankfurt-New York 2 weekly
Islamabad-Frankfurt-New York 2 weekly

Karachi-Paris-Chicago weekly
Lahore-Paris-Chicago weekly
Islamabad-Paris-Chicago weekly

Karachi-Toronto weekly
Lahore-Toronto weekly
Islamabad-Toronto weekly

I think PIA should switch the North American flights via Frankfurt and Paris, leaving Manchaster for only terminating flights.

Good frequency and non-stop flights into Frankfurt might pull in some european traffic (that can use Frankfurt as transit point) which otherwise would have gone to Emirates or Qatar.

Basically a code share/alliance between PIA and Lufthansa.

A central european stop is better then a UK stopover.

-Houston should close down..or if possible have 2x/weekly with a CO codeshare
-Chicago is fine at 2x/weekly...going to 3x/weekly would be a waste of valuable resources and yields would be killed
-start Pakistan-MAN-LAX with a 777-200ER then pick that up to a -300ER if cargo/pax numbers are good
-get some kind of code-sharing deal for crying out loud...maybe CO, or even AA....this would help PK tremendously...
-join one of the alliances such as One World or Star Alliance

[B777240ER]

PIA should lean a lot more heavily on UK CAA for extra slots - even 4 per week would give PIA a double daily Pakistan to London service.

PK is using its 10 weekly allowance.

ISB-LHR 4 weekly
LHE-LHR 3 weekly
KHI-LHR 3 weekly

However this only applicable for LHR and LGW.

I agree with Adnan. B788 for some routes will be perfect. The aircraft can be used on long haul to NYC with increase in frequency.

Using Amaad's 1500 seats this could mean almost 8 weekly flights and more.

It could also mean 11 weekly flights for ISB-MAN.

On that basis PK could take advantage of West - East traffic + providing for O&D traffic.

On saying that PK have have 3 main hubs. Even if FRA/AMS/CDG was served twice weekly that would make 6 weekly flights for connection onto the East. That could be attractive for J class passengers.

PK can try to compete with EK,QR but it will be a hard job and with PK's marketing being poor makes it even harder.

Why would someone want to travel on 3 weekly KHI-LHR when you can travel to DXB on one of 12 flights a day and connect on one of 12 flights to London?

The same could be said for CDG and FRA

[smarties]

Why would someone want to travel on 3 weekly KHI-LHR when you can travel to DXB on one of 12 flights a day and connect on one of 12 flights to London?

Well PIA are serving LHR on WED, FRI, SUN which are excellent. And on Fridays they leave at 20:30 so people who are working can go to work and fly out in the evening without having to take a day off just for flying there. Old people and passengers travelling with children will much prefer a direct flight. 3 flights a week are pretty decent to/from KHI.

I mean who wants to add an extra 2 hours to your journey? You have to quickly make a transit at DXB, or one of the other middle eastern airports take your hand luggage with with you board-reboard..its just a pain. Not to mention you have to go through security TWICE! PIA fares are very reasonable as well. I usually always travel PIA when i go Karachi 'cuz its just easy and convienient and i know many other people feel this way. I feel PIA are doing a very good job on their KHI-LHR-KHI flights especially since they are using 743's on the route.

[Moin]

And another issue with these flights which have a 'quick transfer' via DXB or DOH is that you might make it but your baggage won't. It would have been left behind due to the time constraints involved transferring it from the arriving flight to the departing flight. You then have to wait for it to come on the next flight.

Even though I've switched to QR from PIA since the last 3 years as theres a good Rs.25K difference in their J class fares, I make sure I have a stopover in DOH of at least 1 hour. I avoid the 45 min DOH rushovers, especially when coming back to KHI from LHR as I like to browse in the shops and use the J class lounge.

[smarties]

PIA's Business class fare are almost the same as EK's business class this year. Previously you could get a round trip C class on PK for Rs57,000. I think the reason PK have hiked their fares up is b/c they now provide a a limo service to/from the airport.

Yeah and another set back for these middle eastern airlines is that yr luggage usually doesn't travel with you, with the exception of Gulf Air as it is a same plane service all the way to LHR from KHI. The luggage stays onboard at MCT. My opinion is that GF is the best airline after PIA to/from KHI. Especially their J class as they have skybeds and sky chefs which EK does not have.

[SteveUK]

You see, what bothers me is that if the three-times weekly service from KHI to LHR is adequate for most people, and if the PIA fare is not too bad, and if people would rather not have the hassle of additional immigration at Doha or Dubai, and if there's a real risk of your luggage not being at LHR when you arrive due to the snap transits - why the hell are droves of passengers from Karachi using EK and QR? For each one of us that posts here there is a slightly different take on the reason(s), so I suppose it's little wonder that PIA can't seem to pinpoint the reason(s) either.