Pilot shortage in PIA

inducedrag · Post by **inducedrag** » Tue Mar 14, 2006 2:36 pm

Forwarding this letter for the forum members PILOT SHORTAGES IN PIA.

Within the next two years PIA will face a serious crisis because of pilot strength shortages. The seeds for this crisis have already been sown and they stem from a long-standing alienation between the aircrew and their management. It would take much time and useless effort to analyse the reasons for this rift but in the interest of the survival of the Airline, it would be wise to accept that it does exist and that the problems arising from it are real.

At this time PIA is struggling to meet its maintenance of flight schedules with the present pilot complement. This is partly because regular planned recruitment was not carried out and also because a number of disgruntled pilots have left the Airline for flying jobs in other airlines. At least twenty-one pilots have left in the last few years with the majority leaving in 2005 (this year!)

Forty pilots will retire within the next two years. These pilots, being of retirement age, are the most experienced in the Airline. They cannot be replaced easily-and those who replace them must be replaced themselves on the equipment that they have been flying.

In an airline that in the 37 years that I served it, never produced a feasible five year plan (or even a two year plan for that matter) it is difficult to assess exactly what, in numbers, the pilot shortage will be but we can be sure that there WILL be a shortage.

Pilots who will become medically unfit in this period are impossible to number as well, but if we take the history of aircrew groundings in PIA they are well above normal industry levels in proportion.

I have met many pilots recently and the majority are planning to leave the airline. This is particularly distressing when these pilots are among the young, up and coming, F/O group that would have formed the backbone of the future pilot strength. Jobs are opening up in the Gulf, Saudi Arabia, and soon in the Far East to attract our pilots who fear that they have a bleak and underpaid, overworked and unappreciated future in PIA.

To give an example, Ittehad Airlines plans to induct five B777s into their fleet. If they plan to pay international salaries (or close to them) any PIA pilot who has completed 25 years to qualify for a pension (and many of the B777 captains will fall into this category) will probably leave for a more lucrative job. The B777 co-pilots may also leave if the emoluments are tempting enough.

The contract system for employing pilots in PIA has been in use for some time. If a pilot knows that he cannot expect to reap the long service benefits of a pension and medical facilities then he is likely to stay in PIA until he has a marketable experience
value in another airline, then leave PIA for a better salary and prospects. A permanent employee would feel secure in his job. It should be noted that Cadet Engineers are employed by PIA on a permanent basis and this disparity adds to a new pilotÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â€žÂ¢s sense of insecurity.

If contract pilots leave after they have received their initial training and experience, PIA runs the risk of becoming a ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã‹Å“nurseryÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â€žÂ¢ or training school for other airlines.

Pilots who have left PIA with years of service to go, pilots who plan to leave in the near future, and those who will leave once they achieve the requirements required by another airline, are a huge and potentially crippling loss to the National Airline.

Induction of pilots from the PAF will not solve this problem. The PAF pilots will take time to be retrained to airline flying methods and will not be ready to take command on the higher equipment aircraft for years.

Foreign pilots can be used as a stopgap as was done in the 1970s but this has major drawbacks. Firstly PIA would have to pay them international salaries. The foreign pilots were paid nearly five times that of a PIA B707 captain in the 70s.
Secondly times have changed: the risk for personal security for foreigners in Pakistan is a major deterrent to anyone coming here to work. They will perhaps demand more than the usual money to compensate for the risk.

Pilots who have regular jobs abroad will obviously not want to come to work for PIA so the question is: what type of individuals would be available as pilots in this day and age?
These may turn out to be the dregs of aviation who cannot find jobs elsewhere.

The solution to this problem would lie in using confidence-building measures between management and aircrew to make the pilots feel that this is THEIR airline. Salaries (although they need to be enhanced) are not everything to our pilots. Few would like to leave their country unless they feel that working conditions are unbearable.

The PIA pilots have proved their worth time and again in times of national emergency-given a chance they would show their patriotism and loyalty to the National Airline in full measure.

Capt. J. Sadiq PIA (retd.)

Attached is a list of pilots who have left the Airline, and another one showing pending retirements.

inducedrag · Post by **inducedrag** » Tue Mar 14, 2006 2:39 pm

PILOTS WHO HAVE LEFT PIA IN RECENT YEARS.

1) Captain Asif Salim P48334 Capt.A300 Left 2005 ret. Date 2009
Airline loss= 4years. Presently flying for MNG or Flyer (Turkish airline.)

2) Captain Hussein Jafri P48038 Co-pilot B747. Left 2005 ret. Date 2026
Airline loss=21 years.

3) Captain K.R. Khan P47403 Capt.A300 Left 2005 ret date 2014
Airline loss=9years. Presently flying for MNG/ Flyer (Turkish airline.)

4) Captain Shezad Asif P43280 Capt. A 310 Left 2005 ret. Date 2020
Airline loss=15 years. Presently flying for Emirates.

5) Captain Sohail Sheikh P43282 Capt. A310 Left 2005 ret. Date 2019
Airline loss=14 years Presently flying for Emirates.

6) Captain Shinwari P39817 Capt. A310 Left 2005 ret date 2018
Airline loss= 13 years. Presently flying for Emirates.

7) Captain Jamil Rabbani P35210 Capt. A300 Left 2003 (on leave without pay but very unlikely to return) ret. Date 2018. Airline loss= 15 years Presently flying for Singapore. Presently flying for Singapore on B777.

8) Captain Imtiaz-ul Haq P35209 Capt. A300 left 2003 ret date 2015
Airline loss= 12 years.Presently flying for Singapore on B777

9) Captain Zahid Rehman P32878 left 1999 ret. Date 2015
Airline loss= 16 years.

10) Captain Khizer P32871 Capt. A300 left 2003 ret. Date 2007
Airline loss=4years. Presently flying for Singapore on B777

11) Captain Asad Ali P23513 Capt. 747 left 2000 ret. Date 2008
Airline loss=8 years.

12) Captain Saif P56378 Capt. A300 left 2005 ret. Date 2012
Airline loss= 7 years. Presently flying for MNG (Turkey)

13) F/O Mohsin Naqvi P54912 F/O F-27 left 2004 ret. Date 2033
Airline loss=29 years. Presently flying for Cathay.

14) F/O Raja P54876 F/O B737 left 2005 ret. Date 2027
Airline loss=22 years. Presently flying for Qatar.

15) F/O Mudassir P35912 F/O B737 left ? ret. Date 2013
Airline loss ? Presently flying for Air Blue as A320 Capt.

16) F/O Adnan Sami P52348 F/O A 310 left 2005 ret. Date 2031
Airline loss= 26 years. Presently flying for Emirates.

17) F/O Mahmood Ghani P52349 F/O A310 left 2005 ret. Date 2027
Airline loss=22 years.

18) F/O Naeem P52345 F/O B737 left 2004 ret. Date 2023
Airline loss=19 years. Presently flying for Emirates.

19) F/O Omer Cheema P51762 F/O A310 left 2005 ret. Date 2032
Airline loss=27 years.

20) F/O Irfan Habib P51736 F/O A310 leaving 2006 ret. Date 2031
Airline loss= 25 years.Presently flying for Qatar.

21) F/O Abrar Hussain P51739 F/O 777 left 2005 ret. Date 2029
Airline loss=24 years Presently flying for Emirates.

22) F/O Rashid Akbar P51745 F/O A 300 left 2000 ret.Date 2020
Airline loss= 20 years. Presently flying for Qatar.

23) F/O. Ibrar P51463 F/O B747 left 2005 ret. Date 2018
Airline loss=13 years. Presently flying for Emirates.

24) F/O Zahid Ashraf P49260 F/O A310 left 2004 ret. Date 2024
Airline loss=20 years. Presently flying for Emirates.

25) F/O Qaiser P48965 F/O A310 left 2004 ret. Date 2022
Airline loss=18 years. Presently flying for Emirates.

26) Captain Faisal Rais P48341 Capt. F-27 left 2003 ret. Date 2023
Airline loss= 20 years. Presently flying as Capt. A300/600 for Qatar.

inducedrag · Post by **inducedrag** » Tue Mar 14, 2006 2:42 pm

PIA PILOTS DUE FOR RETIREMENT IN THE NEXT TWO YEARS.

DATE OF RETIREMENT

Suleman Nabi 31.12.2005

M. Zubair 2.1.2006

Zabih 15.1.2006

Anjum 13.5.2006

Jamil Gill 15.5.2006

Ansar 20.5.2006

Mazhar Ahmed 10.7.2006

Akram 1.8.2006

Feroze Shahid 14.8.2006

N.Rehman 16.8.2006

Khalid Pervez 16.8.2006

Shahid Habib 18.9.2006

Shabbir 28.9.2006

Zubair Subhani 15.10.2006

Dara 11.11.2006

Zahid Mian 15.11.2006

Tariq Syed 16.11.2006

Zia=ul-Islam 16.12.2006

Arif Malik 23.12.2006

Ali Khan 5.1.2007

Baig 13.1.2007

Hanif Amin 6.2.2007

Khalid Mufti 21.3.2007

Intekhab 1.4.2007

Pervez Saeed 5.4.2007

Bhatti 8.6.2007

Javed Khan 12.6.2007

Saeed Khan 15.6.2007

Hassan Iqbal 26.6.2007

Mian Waseem 9.7.2007

Tajammul 15.8.2007

Aijaz Ali 26.8.2007

Mumtaz-ul-Haq 31.8.2007

Furqan 6.9.2007

M.Karim 12.9.2007

Khwaja Arshad 26.9.2007

Haleem 17.10. 2007

Zakaullah 2.11.2007

Nasir H. Khan 10.11 2007

cheetah · Post by **cheetah** » Tue Mar 14, 2006 4:33 pm

To add to the list.

Captain Mian Naveed B747 Captain left for Saudia in Jan 2006.

Big out flow is going to start in the B777 cadre. I know of 5 captains who are looking to jump to Asiana.

inducedrag · Post by **inducedrag** » Tue Mar 14, 2006 5:39 pm

Best of all chief pilot planning and scheduling Capt. Adnan has been selected leaving and joining Qatar soon

flyingsystem · Post by **flyingsystem** » Tue Mar 14, 2006 8:41 pm

This news make me really sad when I see that there are to much pilots in Europe! My brother applied a few weeks ago for pilot job and PIA never answered him: Was it only becaus he hav'nt pakistani License?
Doe s any one know a chief pilot name or head of training where he can send his application (in pia)????

F.K · Post by **F.K** » Tue Mar 14, 2006 8:58 pm

these pilots are conservatively drawing 5 times as much as they were getting in pia, and when thats compared over a carreer it runs in to a difference of tens of millions. i remember when my dad was sent to emirates for just a few months he was getting 3 times his salary with additional outstation allowances in dollars, yet he never applied to any foreign airline when fes were still demand. some pilots do not wish to be dislodged and are willing to forsake much greener pastures but most know better then that. the temproary plug would be extending the retirement age to 62-5 so that pia can retain its top noch senior pilots and churn out more in a phased manner. salary restrcturing is now a must specially when pia is flying latest aircraft that makes it easier for pilots to switch airlines. the exodus is feared from the 777 and the 310s. 747 classic pilots are no longer needed in the market, cus most airlines that use them are stocked up well. how did capt mian naveed get in to saudia??

Adnaan786 · Post by **Adnaan786** » Tue Mar 14, 2006 9:26 pm

Pilots who have regular jobs abroad will obviously not want to come to work for PIA so the question is: what type of individuals would be available as pilots in this day and age?
These may turn out to be the dregs of aviation who cannot find jobs elsewhere.

What I would like to see is for PIA to open up their requirements to allow those individuals who are Pakistani nationals with foreign licences to apply to PIA.

It's not necessarily true that only those who can't get jobs anywhere else only want to work for PIA. There is probably a decent sized community of foreign Pakistanis that would love to work for PIA simply because it is the flag carrier of our country.

Plus the standard of training outside Pakistan, particularly in Europe is of a much higher standard. Maybe not so much flying wise, but a lot more knowledge wise.

I hope it's something PIA will consider. I'm pretty sure the pilot shortage issue is something they are thinking about carefully at this moment in time. I wouldn't be surprised if they put the retirement age up.

Adnaan786 · Post by **Adnaan786** » Tue Mar 14, 2006 9:34 pm

I forgot to say how well written the article is. PIA sure does miss the likes of Captain J. Sadiq.

kamalla · Post by **kamalla** » Wed Mar 15, 2006 1:48 am

This is a sad situation for sure.
With PIA making plans for a major upgrade of their fleet in the next decade, they definitely need to get their act together in this area.

Amaad Lone · Post by **Amaad Lone** » Wed Mar 15, 2006 7:28 am

Looks like PIA needs to raise the salaries of its cockpit crew.

Can anyone post the exact takehome (after taxes) of a PIA captain and first officer versus what they make in Emirates or Qatar Airways.

Does a PIA 777 captain make the same money that a 747/A310/737 captain makes?

Do the Gulf airlines deduct income tax on its pilots salaries, because that must be a huge windfall, versus paying 35 percent tax in Pakistan.

There is no reason why PIA cannot match the salaries of the middle east airlines, its not as if they are charging less for their tickets.

It is not fair to compare the average income of the country to determine the salaries, after all there are bankers in Pakistan who taking home salaries equal to bankers in europe and the US.

If PIA is charging the same ticket to its Pakistani citizens that Emirates is charging for a ticket, then it should be paying the same salaries to certain group of employees.

A few years ago Indian Airlines faced a similar crisis, when most of its pilots left for private Indian airlines, and the utilization of its A320 fleet fell to 1,000 hours per year. In the end airbus had to intervene to handle the crisis and trained like a 100 pilots within months.

Lets hope it does not happen to PIA.

cheetah · Post by **cheetah** » Wed Mar 15, 2006 8:15 am

F.K you are misinformed about 747 Classic crew demand. There is a big demand for Pilots (not FEs) on the classic fleet. They are coming into the market as freighters, and this demand is only going to increase. As we speak a new Turkish Operator is acquiring 742 freighters, Capt Bucha & Zahid Mian are set to join them as instructors. Transmile in Malaysia already operating MD11 freighters to LAX is now acquireing four 742 freighters. Also Air Atlanta Icelandic is a big employer, Captain Waheed Salam has been flying for them for two years now.

Charliedelta11 · Post by **Charliedelta11** » Wed Mar 15, 2006 12:19 pm

Just to correct Capt. J. Sadiq , Captain Imtiaz- ul- haq is currently flying for China Airlines as a Captain of B747-400 , based in Tai pei , he left SIA approximately 2 and a half years ago .

And yes , there is an acute shortage of pilots , and there is a vast difference between the Pay scales of A310 co-pilots who have much more experience than 777 co-pilots but are bieng paid more only because they are operating on North American routes . Heck they earn more than most A310 Captains! Inspite of doing the same number of flying hours! Right across the border , Jet airways is ofering 7000+ dollars to its pilots and we all know when jet airways acquired its first long haul aircraft...
And froim what i've heard , PIA is hiring Captains for its B777's who will be stationed in Manchester on a monthly pay of 10000 $ since PIA cannot find pilots who have the experience to fly these brand new aircraft and also on the other hand wont promote the co-pilots who have been waiting for ages and have 15+ years of experience under their belt..
This is one huge corporate blunder.

F.K · Post by **F.K** » Wed Mar 15, 2006 12:54 pm

Charliedelta11.... you re wrong in your analogy. any pilot in pia would discount the salary gap between a 777 copilot and 310 fo as a hyperbole where as in actual fact the flying is almost same. the route network of the 310 is expanded around the globe and the shortage within this fold is more felt then on the 777s. however there is not an equitable disbursement of money amongst pilots when they re emoulments are compared across lower equipments. for eg a 310/777/747 fo makes more then a 737 n f27 capt and a whole lot more then the fos still slugging it out in the desperate hope for a carreer break thru before they start from the square again in the commanding capacity. this is the most festering lacuna in the pilot salary calculation, with a huge number of underdogs who are made victims of extremely ill fated slots. some f0 capts have been on standstill for over 10 years where as they re juniors now flying larger aircraft are making more as fos. same is the drudged story of many boeing 737 capts who just grazed the 310 before being sent back as commanders on the f27 and 737 with no immidiete relief as their career end nears. some pilots have made alot and some pitifully dimunative. lucky was the lot that passed the dreadful fokker 737 phase in celerity to move on to larger aircraft because of requirement considerations. the flt ops management must come up with some provision to deal with such a flagrant imbalance in the system . btw these 747 classics that u ve mentioned were picked from the desert or leased out by some airline.. and wouldnt they require full cockpit complements or do they have fes already...!! but most proper airlines still do not require 747 classic cockpit crew .

Charliedelta11 · Post by **Charliedelta11** » Wed Mar 15, 2006 5:29 pm

erm..FK...i dont think the salary gap should be counted as "hyperbole"..and ur pretty much saying what i've jsut said..in much more detail..thats it

otherwise yes..ur right..some A310 fo's have been on the 310 for the past 11 years and are just waiting for command on the F27's, unfortuantely the rate at which promotions are going on is still very slow , but thats besides the topic...
but then again..there really isnt much we can do about salaries...lets jsut hope they manage to increase the salaries otherwise we'll soon find our carrier in dire straits with no pilots and too many planes...