Destinations PIA should fly via Dubai

Amaad Lone · Post by **Amaad Lone** » Fri Mar 10, 2006 3:41 pm

While non-stop flights is the best way to capture a market, sometimes the load is not there to justify such an operation.

PIA should take advantage of Dubai being close to Karachi, and revive certain routes via Dubai, just like Nairobi and Moscow in the past.

I feel flights to Athens, Istanbul, Tripoli, Cairo and Zurich can all be made viable with a stopover in Dubai, but only with flights orginating from Karachi and not from Lahore or Islamabad.

Emirates takes a ton of Pakistani passengers to Europe and North America, its about time PIA starts hitting back, and starts taking advantage of Dubai's open skies policy.

AP-BGL · Post by **AP-BGL** » Fri Mar 10, 2006 3:55 pm

This can also give advantage to the passengers travelling from Faisalabad and Multan. They can have access to the destinations Amaad mentioned from their home city.

B777240ER · Post by **B777240ER** » Fri Mar 10, 2006 4:14 pm

I like this idea.

The Pakistan-DXB market is also growing which PK can take advantage of.

This may seem odd but I think PK should fly to some cities non-stop in peak season and via DXB/Whatever in off peak

sadiqhassan · Post by **sadiqhassan** » Fri Mar 10, 2006 5:26 pm

Maybe PK can increase the number ok DXB-KHI-DXB PK flights and even overtake the amount of EK frequencies

I'd fly PK for sure then

Cheers

hasan saleem · Post by **hasan saleem** » Sat Mar 11, 2006 11:01 am

Fly via dubai/Istanbul to destinations in Europe from karachi

have frankfurt/amsterdam via dubai/Istanbul from the northern hub and paris, copen, oslo fly directly from the northern hub

behramjee · Post by **behramjee** » Sat Mar 11, 2006 4:15 pm

via DXB, I feel that PIA would do reasonably well on the following routes :

1. DXB-MAD A 310 twice a week

2. DXD-IAH B 772LR twice a week

3. DXB-ORD B 772LR twice a week

4. DXB-TIP A 310 twice a week

ZRH no because EK will be flying DOUBLE DAILY on that route + LX is daily A 332 so why would anyone want to fly a hopeless A 310 of PIAs compared to EKs A 345 or LXs A 332 which have far better inflight product cabins than PKs A 310s!!!

sadiqhassan · Post by **sadiqhassan** » Sat Mar 11, 2006 4:57 pm

behramjee wrote:
ZRH no because EK will be flying DOUBLE DAILY on that route + LX is daily A 332 so why would anyone want to fly a hopeless A 310 of PIAs compared to EKs A 345 or LXs A 332 which have far better inflight product cabins than PKs A 310s!!!

I definately agree. Since PIA only has the fleet for 2 or 3 weekly frequencies, it really won't be able to compete on any of EKs trunk / high - frequency routes.

I agree with DXB-MAD, but maybe something like

DXB-MAD-BCN-DXB 2 x weekly A-310

might be better. I also agree with DXB-ORD and DXB-IAH. There is a large Asian population in Michigan.

I think that

DXB-STN 4 x weekly A-310
DXB-FCO 3 x weekly A-310
DXB-GVA 2 x weekly A-310

might also work.

Cheers

Moin · Post by **Moin** » Sun Mar 12, 2006 7:13 am

I should hardly think majority of pax at the time of booking their seats would first ask the question "What type of a/c is it?" If you were to ask them at the end of their flight what equipment they were on, chances are they won't know and the only reply you'll get is that it was a "big plane" or "It had 2 seats by the window, 3 or 4 in the middle and 2 on the other side".

Obviously you won't count these people with those you know or are related to because they'd know exactly what they flew on, courtesy you and the ratio of pax who know someone from this site or aviation in general versus those who don't is very large. In short, if you have 300 pax on an a/c, only about 10 to 15 will know exactly what they're flying.

What people are solely interested in when buying a ticket is getting the best possible deal and if they choose EK, QR, GF etc over PIA (if their fares are basically the same), its not because PIA fly A310's versus A330's or A340's of other carriers but because Pakistan's image has more often than not been projected in a negative light. The way for PIA to be able to lure pax would be to firstly offer noticeably cheaper fares than competing carriers and focus on their inflight service. Thats what pax really look for in an airline, not whether they fly A310's or A340's.

sadiqhassan · Post by **sadiqhassan** » Sun Mar 12, 2006 5:39 pm

Moin wrote:I should hardly think majority of pax at the time of booking their seats would first ask the question "What type of a/c is it?" If you were to ask them at the end of their flight what equipment they were on, chances are they won't know and the only reply you'll get is that it was a "big plane" or "It had 2 seats by the window, 3 or 4 in the middle and 2 on the other side".

Obviously you won't count these people with those you know or are related to because they'd know exactly what they flew on, courtesy you and the ratio of pax who know someone from this site or aviation in general versus those who don't is very large. In short, if you have 300 pax on an a/c, only about 10 to 15 will know exactly what they're flying.

What people are solely interested in when buying a ticket is getting the best possible deal and if they choose EK, QR, GF etc over PIA (if their fares are basically the same), its not because PIA fly A310's versus A330's or A340's of other carriers but because Pakistan's image has more often than not been projected in a negative light. The way for PIA to be able to lure pax would be to firstly offer noticeably cheaper fares than competing carriers and focus on their inflight service. Thats what pax really look for in an airline, not whether they fly A310's or A340's.

aah, but if there is a huge billboard in Dubai showing the Virgin Upper Class Suite, I am sure that at least some passengers will phone their TAs and say "whats the price on VS rather than EK for my trip in XXX."

So it isn't the plane persay, I agree with you - it's the services that are offered on the plane that a passenger might care about.

Cheers

Moin · Post by **Moin** » Sun Mar 12, 2006 9:37 pm

Marketing, Quality of service, Price and I forgot to mention earlier Frequencies. Thats what pax look for, not the type of a/c operated.

Now for instance if PIA were to erect a huge bill board in DXB along the lines VS has done which says "Come fly with us daily to London for only DHS----- return", I can assure you there will be people calling up the number listed below. Its the price people look at these days, alongwith frequencies. Inflight service and the a/c you experience once you're in the air and PIA won't attract much attention if they advertise along the lines of "Come fly with us daily to London on our new 777's" unless they add the golden words "for only DHS-----" because EK fly 777's to LHR 5 times daily too. Its the words DHS that will be the eye catcher, not 777.

The only way an airline can establish loyal clientele is through its fares, quality of inflight service and choice of frequencies. From 2001 to 2003, I was flying PIA business+ twice a year to LHR and back. Why? Because they had the best fare which was Rs.65K versus Rs.95K for EK and I'd personally rather save Rs.30K and fly a 74M with limited inflight entertainment than pay Rs.30K more to fly in a 777 and watch a few good movies and play a few games. I can do that at a much cheaper price by renting those movies from my video store. The inflight service was good by my standards with the cabin crew giving you more personal attention than I experienced on EK and a good variety of food as well and last but not least a 40kg baggage allowance versus 30kg on EK.

Then by 2004 PIA upped the fares to Rs.80K and QR was at Rs.70K, so I switched to QR, joined their Priviledge Club and haven't looked back since. They are still cheaper than PIA and EK and on my last trip to LHR in Jan, I paid Rs.72K whereas PIA was Rs.85K and being a Priviledge Club member I was entitled to 15kg extra baggage allowance in addition to the 30kg QR allowed in business class and now having been upgraded to a silver member, I'm entitled to 25kg extra baggage allowance giving me a total of 55kg and on 2 occasions to and from DOH-LHR I was upgraded to F class and I haven't even redeemed the 30K frequent flier miles I have under my belt.

Now thats how you gain loyalty. Fares, Marketing and Customer Service.

behramjee · Post by **behramjee** » Sun Mar 12, 2006 10:04 pm

I really liked reading your above post Moin

smarties · Post by **smarties** » Sun Mar 12, 2006 10:04 pm

Qatar Airways have quite long transit times in Doha (3+ hours) when going to/from KHI. That is one of the reasons why i have never used QR to Karachi from London, and i guess thats why it is one of the cheapest out of KHI, and on top of that they have those horrid A320 aircrafts on the DOH-KHI-DOH sector. I flew QR last year to Doha, and was upgraded to J class and i didn't find it anything special. QR have a long way to go.

PIA should also go non-stop to all these destinations instead of going via DXB. If people wanted to fly via DXB they would take EK. PIA need to market themselves much better, starting from Pakistan.

sadiqhassan · Post by **sadiqhassan** » Sun Mar 12, 2006 10:20 pm

smarties wrote:Qatar Airways have quite long transit times in Doha (3+ hours) when going to/from KHI. That is one of the reasons why i have never used QR to Karachi from London, and i guess thats why it is one of the cheapest out of KHI, and on top of that they have those horrid A320 aircrafts on the DOH-KHI-DOH sector. I flew QR last year to Doha, and was upgraded to J class and i didn't find it anything special. QR have a long way to go.

I agree. When transferring from N.A. the transit in London is also quite long

However their FF program is stellar.

smarties wrote: PIA should also go non-stop to all these destinations instead of going via DXB. If people wanted to fly via DXB they would take EK. PIA need to market themselves much better, starting from Pakistan.

Sadly, I dont think that they have the traffic to go to all these new cities nonstop - otherwise they would

Cheers

sadiqhassan · Post by **sadiqhassan** » Sun Mar 12, 2006 10:28 pm

Moin wrote:Marketing, Quality of service, Price and I forgot to mention earlier Frequencies. Thats what pax look for, not the type of a/c operated.

Agree completely.

Moin wrote: Now for instance if PIA were to erect a huge bill board in DXB along the lines VS has done which says "Come fly with us daily to London for only DHS----- return", I can assure you there will be people calling up the number listed below.

Agree again, but let me give you an example of what I have done living in Toronto.

Every year we fly Toronto - Heathrow - Dubai - Karachi, buying our tickets from Karachi because of the great fares. An Air Canada ticket was always the cheapest and we took them without a doubt, every year for the last 6 or 7 years. Their schedule was also amazing.

However, their plane standards are pathetic. Most of the cabins are held together with duct tape, they have poor staff, and they frequently have delays.

Last summer, we finally decided to try something else - because Air Canada was getting beyond bearable. We chose BA. The schedules were not as good (only 2 a day flights between London and Toronto) and it was 20,000PKR more (167,000PKR for AC and 189,000 for BA.) However, after that summer - we are never going back to Air Canada. The difference was astronomical- the planes were newer, cleaner. The seat was fully flat in business class, the meals were great, everything went smoothly. The experience was just so stress-free that we have now told everyone here in Toronto to fly BA. BA never got a chance before - because they priced just a little above the competition.

BA didn't win in fares, marketing or frequencies. However, the quality in service just put a smile on your face - and it was enough to suck me in.

Flying Karachi - Dubai - London - Toronto all in 1 day is not fun, trust me, but when we are shelling out so much for business class anyway, the comfort we get far outweights the cost.

When travelling economy class, it would be different - since most people want the lowest fares.

Cheers

smarties · Post by **smarties** » Sun Mar 12, 2006 10:37 pm

Sadly, I dont think that they have the traffic to go to all these new cities nonstop - otherwise they would

They do have the traffic. They use to fly direct to ZRH and ATH. I once took a flight from KHI-ZRH and it was full. They do have the traffic, but no one wants to take PIA to these places because their schedule is so bad. I mean who is going to fly to ATH or ZRH once a week? If they make it 2/3 times a week on an A310 with PTVs in all classes it would do well.