B777-300ER - The Nation 25 Dec

[AN]

Gentlemen, this discussion is very old, and continues on discussion boards everywhere.

Fact of the matter is most people here do not have knowledge of ETOPS regs, or what it means, nor do they have the understanding of aircraft limitations that is required to judge which aircraft is better than the other.

However, since nobody knows better about their aircraft, than the manufacturers themselves, their words should be final, particularly when coming from the competition, as it did from (and this was posted on this website recently) Airbus when they offered reducing the price on the A340's by the difference between what an A340 and a 777 would cost an airline. When someone admits their product is inferior and tries to equate it to the better product by knocking off the loss their product would cause your company from the initial price, there really is no debate left as to which is superior.

You may debate which would have been better for PIA, or what planning (IF ANY) there is in PIA prior to purchasing an aircraft (with the ATR it seemed simply a matter of who would sell the aircraft in a way PIA could afford it ie finance it, as initialy the Saab, and then the Dash 8 were chosen, both deals falling through due to lacking of adeqaute financing), but the debate as to which aircraft is better has been sealed by the aforementioned, and is reflected in current sales of the aircraft, so lets end this right now.

[ConnieMan]

Jacobin777,


It's better that I leave your ignorance in Bay Area when you have absolutely ZERO knowledge of ETOPS certification of destinations and spewing horse saddle nonsense about B-777 and A-340.

BTW, PIA A-310 need 180 ETOPS while they fly over-land sector to Beijing, China ( in case you can't figure out that ETOPS is not just over Pacific, Atlantic, and Indian oceans), that is if the Chinese don't activate the military ATC at Lanzhua and Kashi air force base as a diversionary air fields.

Aside from all this.......you need a lot of "hands on" education on commercial aviation. =D>


Oh, you need to stand up and read this: Once a twin-engine aircraft has a engine failure while flying ETOPS destination. THE ETOPS CERTIFICATIONS FOR THAT DESTINATION IS REVOKED

I read your reply again and boy oh boy....blind stupidity you have.

Brother do you know what ETOPS really means? and why it was created?

Brother, it seems as if none of you know what it is..as I've been providing example after example of ETOPS.....

Again, no one has bothered to dispute my original comments...NOT ONE....

I won't bother to respond to any posts on this particular thread until someone here addresses my valid points....

Jacobin777, My referance was to Saleem's comments, i just diden't wanted to get involved between you and him though, seems to me everyone knows what they are talking about and yet one perticular individual is not making sence here and instead to learning just arguing on and on...anyhow i won't say anything till its needed.

[Jacobin777]

Jacobin777, My referance was to Saleem's comments, i just diden't wanted to get involved between you and him though, seems to me everyone knows what they are talking about and yet one perticular individual is not making sence here and instead to learning just arguing on and on...anyhow i won't say anything till its needed.

Ok..I got ya'....

I find it funny that not one person has bothered to debate on my original post and have gotten stuck up on the whole ETOPS thing (which again, proved my point anyway)..not to mention, I provide links, information, etc on ETOPS and people still ignorantly yap on and on...too funny!

[ConnieMan]

Do you want to let cat out of the bag yet Saleem? (ETOPS)
(Engines Turn or Passengers Swim)....

[Saleem Hatoum]

Do you want to let cat out of the bag yet Saleem? (ETOPS)
(Engines Turn or Passengers Swim)....

It is actually Engine Turn or People Swim.....because if only PAX then where will the crew go

Alas, I have given facts after facts. Just because some "nuts" at EK keep trying to set their "own" standards it doesn't mean the industry has changed. Personally, I don't consider any of these "A6/7" any good but worthless airlines which are in the same league as Enron. SQ is satisfied with A-345 to a point they are not interested in LR. Qantas is more or less going to go with A-345 (this is my personal view based on what they are looking for)

Did you know that second DC-10-30CF of PIA AP-AXE flew non-stop JFK-KHI with close to 100 PAX...but it doesn't mean it is true in real life.

Currently, five airlines are using A-345 against one 777 LR (Which by itself is a joke) so A-345 is rolling the ball these days and it remains to be seen when LR will reach market what what can it do. Aside from all the laughable "world record" LR has a lot of load restrictions.

Jacobin777,

Go and talk to AA, SQ, SV, EK, TG, & DL flight ops., about ETOPS and restrictions.....my question to you and don't come home crying when you hear the truth about B-777 ETOPS

Oh, ask EK flight Ops why did they introduce A-340-300 in their fleet.....

Oh...another one...ask SQ about B-777-200ER not flying into LAX???

Or ask UL about LAX-AUK not having your lovely B-777-200ER fly this route.

Just a little note, A-346 as per revenue (according to VS & ZS) flight it generate more $$$ on cargo then PAX, 21% more then B-773ER

You illogical rational about DL/AA/CO using B-777 to fly 192 PAX in a ircraft which is configured to accomodate 290-310 PAX shows your limitation in understanding airline industry. DL & AA are losing money on these route and OTOH AI makes tons of $$$ when they fly daily DHL-ERW-DHL non-stop B-744 without any restrictions and full load of babus.

One more point: A-330-200/300 and A-340-200/300 are more or less the same project with each aircraft providing the airline CCQ. B-777 was designed to replace DC-10 & L-1011 and a direct competition to MD-11.

[ConnieMan]

Do you want to let cat out of the bag yet Saleem? (ETOPS)
(Engines Turn or Passengers Swim)....

It is actually Engine Turn or People Swim.....because if only PAX then where will the crew go

Not quite true!:roll:, your surcasum is not allowed if that was the case!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ETOPS

There you go, now whoever dosen't know ETOPS or its regulations and extentions can certainly learn.....

[Jacobin777]

Do you want to let cat out of the bag yet Saleem? (ETOPS)
(Engines Turn or Passengers Swim)....

It is actually Engine Turn or People Swim.....because if only PAX then where will the crew go

Not quite true!:roll:, your surcasum is not allowed if that was the case!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ETOPS

There you go, now whoever dosen't know ETOPS or its regulations and extentions can certainly learn.....

ConnieMan.....if ETOPS are sooooooooo bad for the carriers then why has the 777 sold like gangbusters the past couple of years? Why are carriers such as SQ, QF, EK, BA buying more and more 777's?? Why has the A330 sold like gangbusters? Why is the B787 THE FASTEST selling twin in history? Besides the A380, why is Airbus no longer going to build a future quad? Why is Airbus spending $15 BILLION on a TWIN???

Not one person has been able to challange my statements...people here have blindly repudiated my statements/comments without even offering a challenge....

As I've been saying all along......"Put up or shut up".....

[ConnieMan]

Jacobin777, i don't know what is wrong with the picture here with you, i am not saying anything against you nor i am here to challange you, i posted above post with quotation to Saleem's post, now where and when did i said anything is/was SooooooBAADDD with any of your statements!, is getting beyond me. On the otherhand i provided knowlegeable link for guys who don't know what ETOPS is, so they can learn and stop making useless and pointless or baseless post in this discussion, this discussion had none what so ever to do with ETOPS to begin with, and now i would like guys to get back to original topic and stop being childish by asking unneeded challenges here...

[Moin]

This is going from sublime to the ridiculous.

Just in answer to some statements here:

The 772LR has been ordered by PIA, EVA, EK, QR, AI and KE, so the number of airlines operating this a/c will increase. Only PIA is operating it right now, the other airlines have yet to have them delivered.

SQ operate the 777 into SFO and LAS.

EK only had the A343 in their fleet on lease from SAA and they are not a permanent addition to their fleet.

An a/c is not necessarily better just because it has 2 extra engines, or there is an extra jumpseat or a joystick where you can rest your food tray on the glass panel. Are those the pre-requisites for determining which is a better a/c? You want to know which a/c is better of the two? Go and directly ask EK, SQ, TG, AF, SU or KU, airlines which operate both the A340/777 series. The sales of an a/c also speak volumes about its reputation and performance. All a/c have their high points and drawbacks but in the end, the customer is always right.

Other than that I think everyone is getting rather carried away here. Not everyone here is a Boeing/Airbus employee, a qualified a/c engineer or best buddies with every pilot or airline employee. If you are just say so, so that your comments are not dismissed as being jibberish.

All that was posted was an article in a local paper that the batteries of the 773ER packed up and its resulted in an aggressive flaming war with everyone claiming they know better than everyone else. I've given my opinions and stand by them, but I find it more ethical and within the norms of decency not to resort to such statements as 'BS, shut up, illogical, ignorant, yapping on, you're a typical no-nothing, you need to educate yourself'. Is this the language someone who professionally considers themselves genuinely worldly in aviation uses? This is all soundlike highschool classroom dialogue.

I think this topic should be locked now and no ground breaking information or knowledge that would benefit anyone will be posted here anyway.