UK Aviation Team to Visit Pakistan in January 2025 for Resumption of Pakistani Airlines Flights

[Averagespotter]

I hope British Airways responds and increases service within Pakistan, versus maintaining the 3 weekly flights they operate from LGW. BA should be back to serving Pakistan on daily basis.

Virgin Atlantic stopped coming to Pakistan as well, presumably because they couldn't fill their business class cabins which makes them real money. BA is probably suffering with the same issue, which is why they moved to Gatwick. Pakistan barely has any demand for business/premium travel which is why many airlines don't operate here (added the complexities of operations to pakistan).

Last year i got upgraded 2 times and barely saw any empty seat in business class on flights to/from PK, with mostly appearing as if they had booked it themselves. The business class is not the reason - there are wealthy people in both directions enough to fill the business class.

That's great to hear. However, if we compare the business class passenger in flying from ISB to LGW, vs. LHR to JFK, there is a clear distinction. PAX from JFK would, I would assume, book much later, and hence pay a premium for the late booking. In fact, in 2021, 28% of all PAX from LHR were business travellers. Meanwhile, I believe it would be safe to suggest most PAX to/from ISB are leisure travellers (exception being domestic travellers to destinations like Karachi). Therefore, even if on both the routes the cabin is full, the above argument would suggest passengers from LHR to JFK would pay more for the same seat compared to LGW to ISB.

With that being said, I agree that in the long run (where equipment limitations is not an issue), this factor alone is not enough for BA to reduce capacity, but in the short run, it would make a lot of sense for them to first maximise profitability on their more lucrative routes.

[Usman123]

Thats good to have time to revive BGJ, BGY,BMG & BID

If PIA thinks to resume AMS or FCO or FRA or MXP then it won't be a bad thinking to revive them....

Great number of Pakistanis will travel via PIA to north sector if flights to FRA & MXP to ISB opened.
However airlines like Pegasus & Air arabia have captured Karachis Market due to extremely low fares.

One more thing to note is that most Pakistanis in EU prefer going back home Via Saudi Airlines getting 5 days layover to perform Umrah on their way home.

[faisal-777]

I hope British Airways responds and increases service within Pakistan, versus maintaining the 3 weekly flights they operate from LGW. BA should be back to serving Pakistan on daily basis.

Virgin Atlantic stopped coming to Pakistan as well, presumably because they couldn't fill their business class cabins which makes them real money. BA is probably suffering with the same issue, which is why they moved to Gatwick. Pakistan barely has any demand for business/premium travel which is why many airlines don't operate here (added the complexities of operations to pakistan).

Last year i got upgraded 2 times and barely saw any empty seat in business class on flights to/from PK, with mostly appearing as if they had booked it themselves. The business class is not the reason - there are wealthy people in both directions enough to fill the business class.

That's great to hear. However, if we compare the business class passenger in flying from ISB to LGW, vs. LHR to JFK, there is a clear distinction. PAX from JFK would, I would assume, book much later, and hence pay a premium for the late booking. In fact, in 2021, 28% of all PAX from LHR were business travellers. Meanwhile, I believe it would be safe to suggest most PAX to/from ISB are leisure travellers (exception being domestic travellers to destinations like Karachi). Therefore, even if on both the routes the cabin is full, the above argument would suggest passengers from LHR to JFK would pay more for the same seat compared to LGW to ISB.

With that being said, I agree that in the long run (where equipment limitations is not an issue), this factor alone is not enough for BA to reduce capacity, but in the short run, it would make a lot of sense for them to first maximise profitability on their more lucrative routes.

I believe the issue is that even in economy, the majority PAX type is Visiting Friends & Relatives (VFR). The VFR is mostly concentrated around summer holidays or Christmas season. Other than that, there is not enough demand for point to point traffic to Pakistan to warrant a daily flight. And then seasonal increases - i dont know honestly if this possible for them to ask for it. For example they could ask for a daily flight between May - August and then keep 3x a week. I am not an expert on how approvals work with CAA but i would presume this is the reason.

And even if they get approved to fly daily, at same time they would deploy aircraft to other routes because summer season is busy not only for flying to PK but globally.

[Averagespotter]

I believe the issue is that even in economy, the majority PAX type is Visiting Friends & Relatives (VFR). The VFR is mostly concentrated around summer holidays or Christmas season. Other than that, there is not enough demand for point to point traffic to Pakistan to warrant a daily flight. And then seasonal increases - i dont know honestly if this possible for them to ask for it. For example they could ask for a daily flight between May - August and then keep 3x a week. I am not an expert on how approvals work with CAA but i would presume this is the reason.

And even if they get approved to fly daily, at same time they would deploy aircraft to other routes because summer season is busy not only for flying to PK but globally.

Absolutely, the VFR segment is very price sensitive compared to business pax (with the exception of maybe when an emergency like a funeral shows up). That's part of the reason the ME airlines are able to dominate the industry. In my opinion it's more of an economic issue; with a GDP to consumption ratio of more than 80%, there's really no need for most businesses to go international and leisure travellers aren't well off enough (>1600 USD) to be inflexible. Opening up Pakistan's economy to foreign entities will definitely help mitigate this issue (I remember when I recently flew from LGW to ISB, there were a few individuals travelling for diplomatic reasons on business class, multinationals could do the same). Until then, it'll just be us depending on PIA and airblue to link us to Europe.

[faisal-777]

I believe the issue is that even in economy, the majority PAX type is Visiting Friends & Relatives (VFR). The VFR is mostly concentrated around summer holidays or Christmas season. Other than that, there is not enough demand for point to point traffic to Pakistan to warrant a daily flight. And then seasonal increases - i dont know honestly if this possible for them to ask for it. For example they could ask for a daily flight between May - August and then keep 3x a week. I am not an expert on how approvals work with CAA but i would presume this is the reason.

And even if they get approved to fly daily, at same time they would deploy aircraft to other routes because summer season is busy not only for flying to PK but globally.

Absolutely, the VFR segment is very price sensitive compared to business pax (with the exception of maybe when an emergency like a funeral shows up). That's part of the reason the ME airlines are able to dominate the industry. In my opinion it's more of an economic issue; with a GDP to consumption ratio of more than 80%, there's really no need for most businesses to go international and leisure travellers aren't well off enough (>1600 USD) to be inflexible. Opening up Pakistan's economy to foreign entities will definitely help mitigate this issue (I remember when I recently flew from LGW to ISB, there were a few individuals travelling for diplomatic reasons on business class, multinationals could do the same). Until then, it'll just be us depending on PIA and airblue to link us to Europe.

Yes we need actually more carriers coming to PK operating on hub and spoke model, rather than point to point traffic. In my humbe opinion, there is no way PIA or any other local airline will have demand enough to do point to point daily flights to international destinations except LHR. This is why now a days barely a seat is free on QR/EK/EY/TK operating daily to Pakistan. Also the reason why we Pakistanis have to pay quite high fare compared to other regions for same route length.

Unfortunately we are served already by what makes sense. QR/EK/EY/TK. No other player in the region seems to have capacity to come and challenge ME3+TK. Saudia is already stuck and not growing towards West, Riyadh Air launch is not clear and even if they will focus on Pakistan. Other middle eastern carriers (Kuwait, Oman Air, Gulf Air etc) are to small and not capable of running an extensive hub and spoke models. Any other options geographically are unviable.

[AviationLover2020]

Last year i got upgraded 2 times and barely saw any empty seat in business class on flights to/from PK, with mostly appearing as if they had booked it themselves. The business class is not the reason - there are wealthy people in both directions enough to fill the business class.

This is very surprising to hear. I recently flew out of Pak on BA and business class had no more than 10 pax, in a 30-40 seat cabin. It’s true that inbound loads are generally better, but I wonder whether that is because the business class tax levied by the government has damaged premium travel from Pakistan. If the 1/3 capacity I saw on my flight is the norm, then surely it makes better sense for BA (which is famously a premium-heavy airline and likes to cram as many club seats as possible) to deploy the aircraft on a route where it can fill its cabins, and fill them quicker.

[Averagespotter]

Yes we need actually more carriers coming to PK operating on hub and spoke model, rather than point to point traffic. In my humbe opinion, there is no way PIA or any other local airline will have demand enough to do point to point daily flights to international destinations except LHR. This is why now a days barely a seat is free on QR/EK/EY/TK operating daily to Pakistan. Also the reason why we Pakistanis have to pay quite high fare compared to other regions for same route length.

Unfortunately we are served already by what makes sense. QR/EK/EY/TK. No other player in the region seems to have capacity to come and challenge ME3+TK. Saudia is already stuck and not growing towards West, Riyadh Air launch is not clear and even if they will focus on Pakistan. Other middle eastern carriers (Kuwait, Oman Air, Gulf Air etc) are to small and not capable of running an extensive hub and spoke models. Any other options geographically are unviable.

Absolutely, point to point ((even with an a321 xlr) works for high income demographics, which we unfortunately are not.

I take ME to Pakistan flights very often and it's usually full of PAX who live in ME with a few connecting passengers here and there. If I had to estimate, id say it's 1:4. Id say that's why the ME3 have an advantage: large diaspora + connecting passengers. No other airlines could replicate that.

[ba260]

Last year i got upgraded 2 times and barely saw any empty seat in business class on flights to/from PK, with mostly appearing as if they had booked it themselves. The business class is not the reason - there are wealthy people in both directions enough to fill the business class.

This is very surprising to hear. I recently flew out of Pak on BA and business class had no more than 10 pax, in a 30-40 seat cabin. It’s true that inbound loads are generally better, but I wonder whether that is because the business class tax levied by the government has damaged premium travel from Pakistan. If the 1/3 capacity I saw on my flight is the norm, then surely it makes better sense for BA (which is famously a premium-heavy airline and likes to cram as many club seats as possible) to deploy the aircraft on a route where it can fill its cabins, and fill them quicker.

I travel several times between US and PK in a quarter for the last several years. My flights to and from Lahore have been full or near full on Qatar Airways, even in business class. Even to Multan few my flights on Qatar, business class have been full. 1 time load flight load doesn't determine whether BA is doing well. Pre pandemic and during the pandemic, BA was doing well, and I am sure they're still doing well. Lot of traffic between both capitals of London and Islamabad due to diplomatic travel, business ties, and diaspore. Though obviously BA also partnership with QR as well, which they leverage. Also, BA decided to send their aircrafts elsewhere because they can make more money which makes total sense. I'm sure if the pandemic never happened and no supply chain issue, BA would be operating a daily flight at the minimum.

[AviationLover2020]

I travel several times between US and PK in a quarter for the last several years. My flights to and from Lahore have been full or near full on Qatar Airways, even in business class. Even to Multan few my flights on Qatar, business class have been full. 1 time load flight load doesn't determine whether BA is doing well. Pre pandemic and during the pandemic, BA was doing well, and I am sure they're still doing well. Lot of traffic between both capitals of London and Islamabad due to diplomatic travel, business ties, and diaspore. Though obviously BA also partnership with QR as well, which they leverage. Also, BA decided to send their aircrafts elsewhere because they can make more money which makes total sense. I'm sure if the pandemic never happened and no supply chain issue, BA would be operating a daily flight at the minimum.

Pitting anecdotal evidence against more anecdotal evidence means at the end everyone is simply speaking on personal experience. To be sure, let’s see what the future holds for BA’s expansion in Pakistan.

[Badar42]

Thats good to have time to revive BGJ, BGY,BMG & BID

If PIA thinks to resume AMS or FCO or FRA or MXP then it won't be a bad thinking to revive them....

Great number of Pakistanis will travel via PIA to north sector if flights to FRA & MXP to ISB opened.
However airlines like Pegasus & Air arabia have captured Karachis Market due to extremely low fares.

One more thing to note is that most Pakistanis in EU prefer going back home Via Saudi Airlines getting 5 days layover to perform Umrah on their way home.

Second that ,pia will be competing with Saudi's competitive fare and Umrah layover on Manchester and Birmingham routes. Which didn't exist before the ban