What about the other 6 B-747 and 11 A-310 ?

Umair · Post by **Umair** » Wed Apr 25, 2007 12:09 pm

The EU imposed a ban on the 12 A-310 and 8 B-747.
AP-BFU and AP-BFV are going under a D-CHECK at Karachi.
The RB-211 Engines of these two aircrafts were sent to Hong Kong via Singapore on one of the two combis.
AP-BDZ and AP-BGO are in the Hangar.
Then what will happen for the rest of the fleet.My uncle has flown on,
AP-BGG, AP-BFX ,AP-BFW & AP-BAT during the last two months to Delhi Jeddah Hongkong & Dhaka and he said that these aircrafts are in a good condition.The EU will be here on the 28th of May and will than decide whether to give the airline a green signal or not.I flew on AP-BFU last year from London to Islamabad in October and the aircraft was in terrible condition.What will Happen with Just a month to go ?

AP-BGL · Post by **AP-BGL** » Wed Apr 25, 2007 12:32 pm

How come Airbus A310 (AP-BGO) is in hanger? There is news that it hit to one of the vans working at the terminal at Jinnah Int'l airport yesterday. Are you sure about the aircraft in hanger undergoing some checks is BGO?

zerbaer · Post by **zerbaer** » Wed Apr 25, 2007 2:46 pm

Havent BFU & BFV been in maint. since Oct/Nov 2006? D checks don't take that long.

Adnan Anwar · Post by **Adnan Anwar** » Wed Apr 25, 2007 11:01 pm

Does anyone know what is PIA is doing to make itself compliant to EU Safety Regulations and maintenance standards wise?

What is currently happening to each 747 and 310 to get them airworthy for EU operations?

zerbaer · Post by **zerbaer** » Thu Apr 26, 2007 1:48 am

http://www.brecorder.com/index.php?id=5 ... =&supDate=

Pakistan barred from flying to EU bloc due to safety concerns: National Assembly informed
RECORDER REPORT
ISLAMABAD (April 26 2007): National Assembly was told on Wednesday that EU had barred Pakistan from flying to the 27-nation EU bloc because of safety concerns. On a calling attention notice, Pakistan People's Party members asked why the airline was barred and what measures the government had taken to address the EU concerns.

The executive European Commission had put the ban in place in March and only seven PIA Boeing 777s were allowed to fly to the EU out of 42 planes-fleet.

It is to be noted that state-run airline was warned last year that most of its planes failed to meet international standards after an investigation into five separate fires on jets landing in Manchester.

Responding to the calling attention notice, Tanveer Hussain Syed, Parliamentary Secretary for Defence said besides other reasons, the EU's concerns focused on maintenance problems of its Boeing 747s and Airbus 310s.

He was of the view that other than the standard, one the reason could be compelling Pakistan to replace the existing aircraft by purchasing these from the EU countries.

He said the EU is also not satisfied with the PIA's Cargo service. He informed that the newly-appointed PIA Chairman has formed an 80-member engineering team for maintenance of the aircraft.

However, he admitted that due to heavy perks and packages, the professional engineers have joined foreign airlines and the government is making efforts to bring them back on attractive packages. The Chair deferred the issue for thorough debate on Friday.

Copyright Business Recorder, 2007

AP-BGL · Post by **AP-BGL** » Thu Apr 26, 2007 2:19 pm

Adnan Anwar wrote:Does anyone know what is PIA is doing to make itself compliant to EU Safety Regulations and maintenance standards wise?

What is currently happening to each 747 and 310 to get them airworthy for EU operations?

This is what I know, read a news article on the forum;
One of the Boeing 743 (AP-BFU) is in hanger and is being overhauled under supervision of Boeing team. It was due to be rolled out again in March but it didn't, now I think it would fly in June. (Correct me if am wrong)

zerbaer · Post by **zerbaer** » Thu Apr 26, 2007 3:28 pm

This is what I know, read a news article on the forum;
One of the Boeing 743 (AP-BFU) is in hanger and is being overhauled under supervision of Boeing team. It was due to be rolled out again in March but it didn't, now I think it would fly in June. (Correct me if am wrong)

What is so special about this D check that it is being supervised by Boeing? PIA must have performed dozens & dozens & dozens of them - They have even done it for Iran Air in the 1990s. I haven't seen any Boeing people supervising anything at PIA - Are Boeing people at PIA currently? Think you can check with Joe Shaikh (Boeing rep at PK/Isphahani Hangar).

So, from BFU coming out of C check in October and then going into a D check immediately would mean this D check will take over seven months - setting records again!!

Umair · Post by **Umair** » Sat Apr 28, 2007 3:53 pm

Zerbaer just wanted to make a correction,AP-BFV went for a D-Check in February after Hajj Operations.

zerbaer · Post by **zerbaer** » Sat Apr 28, 2007 5:47 pm

Umair... Thanks. BFU had come out of C check sometime before Oct 2006, in November it was stated that it has been put into Interior Refurbishment to comply with supposed SAFA requirements. As time went on BFU (unscheduled) grounding turned into a D check. All along it had three engines missing/short. That would be in addition to the 5 spare engines that haven't been available in serviceable condition for a very long time.

As a matter of interest you may like to look at PK's unscheduled grounding by tail #, for say 6 months or a year. One can see an outlandish under utilization on one hand. When leased (additional), particularly wet leased capacity is factored in PK ops, it gets worse (if that were possible). All this while the maintenance expenditure continues rise for a much lesser number of total hours of operation. Before the 6th. B743 joined, the fleet of five was annually doing between 17,000 to 20,000 or more hours per year.

Its an indefensible condition to be in.

FMC · Post by **FMC** » Mon Apr 30, 2007 5:40 pm

In the latest Board of Directors meeting the issue of dry/wet leasing of aircraft expenses did not get a favorable response. What next ?

zerbaer · Post by **zerbaer** » Tue May 01, 2007 1:41 am

FMC,,, BFV is now short four engines !! Engines are also becoming due for removal on BFW. Who dunnit ?

Amaad Lone · Post by **Amaad Lone** » Tue May 01, 2007 6:33 am

What would it cost to buy around 10 RR engines for the 747 fleet???

The cost should be less then wet leasing extra couple of 747s during the Hadj season.

zerbaer · Post by **zerbaer** » Tue May 01, 2007 8:57 am

Why would anybody want to buy 10 engines. PK has 29 or more of them. They also lease RR engines - that is 'cheaper' than leasing aircraft, they say when seeking approvals. No one asks why the engines are not serviceable. Look into the engine side of the leased A310s. Not convinced, check out engine data on B777s (it may not all be maintenance generated) to forecast upcoming effects, that could be of serious concern for your ops. integrity.... & eventually revenue (of little that is allowed to to be regained).

For scheduled decades old real airlines, financial comparisons of wet leasing for a very short time versus normal scheduled fleet maint. expenditure hold no relevance. Riding public transport is dramatically less expensive than ownig & driving a car. Wet leasing a car will blow one's budget out of the water, unless your revenues were very positive consistently. In PK's case the maint. costs are whatever you want them to be - They are way higher than should be anyway. Main. Expenditures increase while operation steadily marches toward zero or are at least less than half of what PK fleet averaged over decades 'till recently.

PK is not Club Med.

Amaad Lone · Post by **Amaad Lone** » Tue May 01, 2007 10:20 am

Why would anybody want to buy 10 engines. PK has 29 or more of them. They also lease RR engines

No one asks why the engines are not serviceable.

How many of the 29 engines are serviceable???

And how come two 747s are short on engines???

Why are so many engines not operational????????

Well I am asking Zerbaer, so start giving some answers, and not make us go around in circles.

Thank you.

Maddad · Post by **Maddad** » Tue May 01, 2007 11:46 am

We all have questions to ask. Answers can only come forth from a honest open management.

If there were 29 RR engines in the fleet, it is criminal to be short of engines at any point of time.

With one aircraft in the hanger at any point in time taking an average of 2/3 months that it is taking to do a "D" check there is only req of 20 on the wing with 9 spare engine how can PIA be short of engines!!!!

makes you wonder??????