PIA Capt. refuses to eat food served by a non-muslim purser

[cheetah]

Capt M Shamim, does not have such tendencies. This makes me doubt the credibility of this Unknown urdu newspaper reporting. I request fellow members not to jump to conclusions. Captain M Shamim is a very senior and well respected Captain.

[FULLTHRUST]

Well this captain once threatened the management of hijacking the PIA airplane.

Its not the non muslim issue, its a female issue.

trikko, could you please elaborate about the hijacking issue!!

It could be a female issue, as senior captains have a tendency of getting married again as they get closer to their retirements. There are handful cases in PIA.

[Che]

Disgusting behaviour by the captain toward a fellow human being.

Not so thrilled about Che's question either. Hopefully, those who consider non-muslims unclean will reflect on their prejudices and change their viewpoint to a more humanitarian one.

No, I don't consider non-muslim unclean by default...The reason why I brought up the hygiene issue was, what if you see a flight attendant pick his nose or scratch his balls and he happens to be a non-muslim...would you still have no problem getting served by him...

[Gulistan]

Well finally we can see Che is not the muslim he makes himself out to be.

Hindus are cleaner than many muslims that I know of including myself, their faith too puts immense emphasis on purity and cleanliness, also unfortunate circumstances and a senseless caste system have forced some people into janitorial jobs from both Hindu and Christian communities, even in India, that does not mean they are unclean, even in our house our Punjabi Christain jamardarni used to cook for us at times, sadly our late maluvi sahib too was taken aback by this setup, and in his ignorance even told us we should not eat what they cook, but we didnt care and carried on with the practise.

Hindu's cleaner than Muslims dont make me laugh. A true muslim washes himself at least 5 times daily, if not more. Now equate this with dipping in the Ganges the most polluted river on the planet, I wont even mention their thoughts on the therapeutic power of cow urine

[SaadSaeed]

Well finally we can see Che is not the muslim he makes himself out to be.

Hindus are cleaner than many muslims that I know of including myself, their faith too puts immense emphasis on purity and cleanliness, also unfortunate circumstances and a senseless caste system have forced some people into janitorial jobs from both Hindu and Christian communities, even in India, that does not mean they are unclean, even in our house our Punjabi Christain jamardarni used to cook for us at times, sadly our late maluvi sahib too was taken aback by this setup, and in his ignorance even told us we should not eat what they cook, but we didnt care and carried on with the practise.

Hindu's cleaner than Muslims dont make me laugh. A true muslim washes himself at least 5 times daily, if not more. Now equate this with dipping in the Ganges the most polluted river on the planet, I wont even mention their thoughts on the therapeutic power of cow urine

Just like not every muslim wants to strap his body with dynamites and blow himself up, similarly not every hindu is extreme enough to do what you described. Plz read what coyboy said. Being a muslim doesn't mean one is pure and clean by default. Muslims also rape steal and do everything bad any other human is capable of.

Issue at hand is weather this captain's dislike for the FA motivated by race or hygiene as Che would have you believe. For those who claim to know captain musarrat shaheen better, perhaps they can provide a 2nd hand view on what happened.

[Aphelion]

Who is this idiot M Shamim? He needs some lessons in ethics and humanity. Such people disgust me. Fire his supremacist ass.

For those who claim to know captain musarrat shaheen better, perhaps they can provide a 2nd hand view on what happened.

Is the pilot in question M Shamim or Musarrat Shaheen? This topic is also being discussed on A.net on the link below.

http://www1.airliners.net/discussions/g ... n/3099779/

[aviationfan]

Well finally we can see Che is not the muslim he makes himself out to be.

Hindus are cleaner than many muslims that I know of including myself, their faith too puts immense emphasis on purity and cleanliness, also unfortunate circumstances and a senseless caste system have forced some people into janitorial jobs from both Hindu and Christian communities, even in India, that does not mean they are unclean, even in our house our Punjabi Christain jamardarni used to cook for us at times, sadly our late maluvi sahib too was taken aback by this setup, and in his ignorance even told us we should not eat what they cook, but we didnt care and carried on with the practise.

Hindu's cleaner than Muslims dont make me laugh. A true muslim washes himself at least 5 times daily, if not more. Now equate this with dipping in the Ganges the most polluted river on the planet, I wont even mention their thoughts on the therapeutic power of cow urine

Who are you trying to fool? Washes five times a day means ablutions...not taking a complete shower five times a day...So a true Muslim can wash his hands, forearms and other exposed skin five times a day, but wash nothing else and he/she will still be rather smelly...

Now as far as the FA being male/female muslim/non-muslim...when someone is in charge of a $150MM aircraft and 400 or so passengers, I EXPECT for that person NOT to be worried about who is serving dinner and to be focused on the flight itself. Excuses such as the pilot is 'very senior', 'very experienced', 'it is his religious obligation', or any other muslim-related reason stays ON THE GROUND...even then discrimination and bigotry has no place in this world. This captain should be grounded permanently...

[AP-BGJ]

All hats off for this pilot. I dunno what image is he tryin to potray of the airlines or for that matter Pakistan. The comments of some the the ppl on airliners.net forum speaks volumes of what they think of us ....certainly not the kind of image pia wanted to potray.

And yes please refrain from making this topic into a Hindu Muslim religious thingee...

[Amaad Lone]

If captain Shamim refused to be serviced by a non-muslim, that was wrong. But what the captain did, happens every day around the world.

A lot of muslim Pakistanis don't want non-muslims to work in their kitchens or served by them, captain Shamim is not unique.

Muslims face similar discrimination in India, where number of Hindu families consider us untouchables. My father in law went to a Hindu dinner in India, where he recieved different crockery compared to the other guests.

As for Airliner.net forum, the westerners are hardly the ones to condemn us.

Muslim passengers have been offloaded flights in the west because of their "scary looks" and possible "terrorist links".

Muslim males are now made to enter the JFK at a seperate line from their families.

A few months ago Australian police rounded up tons of Pakistani and muslim university students, and interogated them for terrorist plots, including British passport holders, only to release them over the next few days.

How Isreal treats its Palestinian population is a different question all together.

If these civilized and educated westerners can have prejudice against muslims (basically for race & religion), then why condemn a Pakistani for treating a non-muslim badly.

We are not an educated lot, and racist behavior from us should be acceptable, specially if it is accepted in the west.

After all it was only 15 years ago that Aparthied ended in South Africa where five millions whites condemned 22 million blacks to a third class life because of their color.

Stop condemning Captain Shamim for something that happens in 80% of our homes every day.

[lamborgini9]

Well i totally agree with u guys! You have a point buddy really foreign hotels wher most of the crew stays is run by non muslims so it means they are also served by non muslims! Actually the thing is some captains are just phsycic they have a attitude problem,! I really feel ashamed of Mr. M Shamim ! HE does not deserve to be in PIA! VEr bad Mr . Shamim Shame on you!

[bagold]

Islam does not have a concept of 'untouchables'. Hygiene issues aside I would happily eat food served by a non-Muslim. The hygiene issue can also surface for food from Muslims.

Hindus will often not eat at another Hindus' place if from an inferior caste. We have an Indian Jewish family on our street who will cross the road on a Saturday so as to avoid talking to non-Jews. Islam categorically rejects this idea of separation. Our Prophet Muhammed (saw) even visited a non-Muslim lady who used to throw garbage on him (saw) when she became ill.

I also reject the generalisation that Hindus are unclean in general. We have many fundamental difference of belief which I would love to discuss with Hindus solely in order to give dawaa. Attacking non-Muslims personally or ridiculing them is not a principle of Islam.

Now as for the case of the captain I will not make any comments as I don't know the full facts of this particular case. As you know I am always suspicious of newspaper reports if this is the sole source of the story.

[PIA10141]

i live in Toronto and have been with so many non-muslim people. i sometimes goto their house and their mom serves me food.... does that really matter?? NO!!! non-muyslim people are humans too so we have to treat them like humans too not like outsiders. some people in Pakistan keep seperate utensiles for non-muslims (my aunt does) and I hate when they do that! I always serve my freinds food in the same kind of utensiles i uses and the same food. So this pilot needs to re-think wat he did.....

[R.F.]

It's heartening to know that majority of pakistani's condemn this insensitive act from an mediocre individual and an equally mediocre as well as a substandard professional such as ' Micheal Shamim' as commonly known in the PIA pilots circle. These born again muslims are a farce their past and present deeds say it all.

Just because the West has a paranoid view towards the muslims does not necessarily warrant this behaviour from us.

[Gulistan]

Well finally we can see Che is not the muslim he makes himself out to be.

Hindus are cleaner than many muslims that I know of including myself, their faith too puts immense emphasis on purity and cleanliness, also unfortunate circumstances and a senseless caste system have forced some people into janitorial jobs from both Hindu and Christian communities, even in India, that does not mean they are unclean, even in our house our Punjabi Christain jamardarni used to cook for us at times, sadly our late maluvi sahib too was taken aback by this setup, and in his ignorance even told us we should not eat what they cook, but we didnt care and carried on with the practise.

Hindu's cleaner than Muslims dont make me laugh. A true muslim washes himself at least 5 times daily, if not more. Now equate this with dipping in the Ganges the most polluted river on the planet, I wont even mention their thoughts on the therapeutic power of cow urine

Just like not every muslim wants to strap his body with dynamites and blow himself up, similarly not every hindu is extreme enough to do what you described. Plz read what coyboy said. Being a muslim doesn't mean one is pure and clean by default. Muslims also rape steal and do everything bad any other human is capable of.

Issue at hand is weather this captain's dislike for the FA motivated by race or hygiene as Che would have you believe. For those who claim to know captain musarrat shaheen better, perhaps they can provide a 2nd hand view on what happened.

If you had bothered to read my post fully, you would have seen i qualified it by saying true Muslim. Are you saying no Hindu baths in the Ganges, only the extremist??

[Gulistan]

If captain Shamim refused to be serviced by a non-muslim, that was wrong. But what the captain did, happens every day around the world.

A lot of muslim Pakistanis don't want non-muslims to work in their kitchens or served by them, captain Shamim is not unique.

Muslims face similar discrimination in India, where number of Hindu families consider us untouchables. My father in law went to a Hindu dinner in India, where he recieved different crockery compared to the other guests.

As for Airliner.net forum, the westerners are hardly the ones to condemn us.

Muslim passengers have been offloaded flights in the west because of their "scary looks" and possible "terrorist links".

Muslim males are now made to enter the JFK at a seperate line from their families.

A few months ago Australian police rounded up tons of Pakistani and muslim university students, and interogated them for terrorist plots, including British passport holders, only to release them over the next few days.

How Isreal treats its Palestinian population is a different question all together.

If these civilized and educated westerners can have prejudice against muslims (basically for race & religion), then why condemn a Pakistani for treating a non-muslim badly.

We are not an educated lot, and racist behavior from us should be acceptable, specially if it is accepted in the west.

After all it was only 15 years ago that Aparthied ended in South Africa where five millions whites condemned 22 million blacks to a third class life because of their color.

Stop condemning Captain Shamim for something that happens in 80% of our homes every day.

Amaad, you can hardly blame AN posters for their diatribe, since it was a Pakistani who posted the thread link from here at AN forum. No doubt who ever that member is he wanted to project a positive image of our country.
So which idiot it was well done