PIA Fokker Down in Multan

[raihans]

Really a sad moment in Pakistani Aviation. And blaming the flight crew is not right until the official reports come out. Any info about the black box recovery and observations?

[Moin]

There should also be a law banning airlines from operating a/c more than 30 years old. This a/c was 42 years old.

In all seriousness, a law should come into force requiring airlines to ground a/c that are more than 30+ years of age. Peoples lives are at stake here and some of these airlines are just out to get the maximum utility from these vintage a/c, make money all while ignoring the possible consequences.

[Adnan Anwar]

There should also be a law banning airlines from operating a/c more than 30 years old. This a/c was 42 years old.

In all seriousness, a law should come into force requiring airlines to ground a/c that are more than 30+ years of age. Peoples lives are at stake here and some of these airlines are just out to get the maximum utility from these vintage a/c, make money all while ignoring the possible consequences.

Yes, the last time I checked present law only forbids Russian planes more than 30 years as per CAA and it has no restrictions on age of a western jet which is ludacrious. The law must cover any aircraft regardless of origin.

[Adnaan786]

Do you guys think this accident wouldn't have happened if it was a newer aircraft?

[Aftab PK786]

Asalamulkium,

PIA Fokker planes’ report to be presented to PM

ISLAMABAD: Senior Minister for Defence, Rao Sikandar Iqbal and Defence Secretary, Lt. Gen. ® Tariq Wasim Ghazi would be presenting a report on all the Fokker planes of PIA on the special directive of the Prime Minister, Shaukat Aziz.

Following the tragic national airlines’ Fokker crash yesterday in Multan, Prime Minister Shaukat Aziz had particularly directed the ministry of defence and the defence secretary to get the other six Fokker aircrafts of PIA thoroughly examined.

Under the directive of prime minister, a special team was being constituted by the defence ministry in this regard, which accompanied by the national airlines’ senior aircraft engineers and other technical staff would be conducting critical checking of the said planes for the completion of a report to be presented to the prime minister, while the defence minister and the defence secretary would be visiting Multan also.

Fokker pilot, airhostess and DAG laid to rest in Lahore

LAHORE: Three victims of the Multan air crash pilot of the PIA Fokker plane Hamid Riaz Qureshi, Airhostess Amira Sikandar Azeem and Deputy Attorney General (DAG) Dr. Suhail Akhtar were laid to rest at Lahore graveyards.

Airliner Pilot Hamid Riaz Qureshi was buried in a local graveyard after funeral prayers at his home at Lahore’s Bedian road.

The remains of Airhostess Amira Sikandar Azeem brought to her parents’ house 170-B Jauhar Town in Lahore. Her relatives and co-workers in PIA were also present on the occasion. After funeral prayers at a local ground she was laid to rest at a nearby graveyard.

Dead body of Deputy Attorney General Dr. Suhail Akhtar was also brought to Lahore and her funeral prayers were held at the Children Complex attended by relatives and people from judiciary.

Multan mourns Fokker plane crash

MULTAN: Following the devastating Fokker plane crash here, the city wears a grim mourning look, as all the business centres have since then remained closed.

The ill-fated plane crashing near Suruj Miani yesterday had perished with 45 precious lives on board.

The business community here has announced a shutter down mourning today, when ‘Ghaibana’ funeral prayers of the Fokker plane crash dead would be offered at 6 P. M. in the evening here at KMCB Ground.

Fokker replacement: govt ignored PIA demand

LAHORE: The tragic incident near Multan in which 45 precious lives were lost could have been averted had the government heeded the demand of PIA authorities to provide more funds for replacing the ageing Fokker fleet years ago, sources revealed.

The Pakistan International Airlines had moved a summary way back in 2004, requesting the government to grant funds for the replacement of the Fokkers but little or no attention was paid towards this demand. After a poor response from the government, the PIA authorities persisted with the planes, spending millions of rupees on their repair and maintenance, the sources said.

“The average age of a plane with the Singapore Airlines is five to seven years, while our Fokkers had completed their life span some 20 years back,” the sources said, adding that almost entire PIA fleet had completed its flying hours and needed immediate replacement.

The PIA officials had also tried to pursue the private airlines either to purchase or take on lease these Fokkers so that it could replace them but to no avail. “The private airlines had flatly refused to include these over-aged Fokkers in their fleets,” the sources said.

They said that the PIA had been running into losses for spending huge amount on repair and maintenance of the Fokkers but even then the authorities did not ground them. The sources added the aviation experts had also recommended the grounding of the PIA Fokkers.

There are nine Fokkers with the national-flag carrier, which fly on various routes - to and from Northern Areas, Makran coast, Lahore, Islamabad, Karachi, Rahimyar Khan, Bahawalpur and Dera Ghazi Khan. The PIA recently purchased one of the seven second-hand ATR planes from the French Airbus Company.

Fokkers are fit: PIA chief

MULTAN: Declaring the Fokker aircraft airworthy, Pakistan International Airlines Chairman Tariq Kirmani has said the manufacturers of the Fokker plane engines have been contacted, who are ready for cooperation and their experts were reaching Pakistan to assist the inquiry teams, investigating the plane crash.

Talking to journalists here on Monday soon after his arrival, the PIA chairman said it would be difficult to determine immediately whether the cause of the crash was sabotage or a technical fault.

He said that there was no plan to ground the Fokker planes, adding: “The Fokkers are fit and airworthy.” He said D-4 planes had been grounded but no decision has been taken to ground the Fokker planes. He announced Rs 200,000 compensation for each family of the victims of the crash, adding the PIA has made all arrangements to transport families of the victims to Multan and will arrange the transportation of bodies of the victims to their respective areas at PIA’s expense.

Meanwhile, PIA engineering wing senior vice-president air vice marshal Iftikhar Gul

on Monday assured that probe report would be completed within a week. Talking to newsmen here, he said that PIA special investigation team members include wing commander Syed Nasim, deputy DG CAA, AVM Iftikhar Gul and is being headed by Air Commodore Junaid Amin.

They have reached Raj Ghat where the ill-fated plane crashed to inspect the crash site from various angles. “It will be premature to say anything about the cause of the crash. We will compile a probe report within a week,” he added. Earlier, the team made a video film of the crash site and the crashed Fokker plane.

Ill-fated Fokker was fit to fly — technically

ISLAMABAD: The PIA Fokker aircraft that crashed near Multan Monday was in “good health” and the crash may have been a result of human error, sources in PIA told The News.

“There was no technical fault in the plane and all its (technical) checks were completed before it took off,” a source, who asked not to be named, said. “It was all safe and sound and both of its engines were without any defect.”

He said since there are no engineers at the Multan airport, a PIA engineer was sent from Lahore on this flight. “The same engineer made all the flight checks before its departure and if there had been even a small problem, he would not have given the permission to fly.”

The engineer after completing all the checks and giving clearance and declaring it flight-worthy boarded the plane and was killed along with other passengers. He said the aircraft had a full tank of 4,700 pounds of fuel when it left Lahore for Multan. It took another 3,500 pounds of fuel from Multan to complete the return journey.

The source said there are possibilities the aircraft might have hit some high-tension electricity wire and caught fire. “The theory that its engine had caught fire doesn’t seem to hold any ground as the aircraft was fitted with fire-warning system and the pilot would have known if there was any fire,” he said, adding a flame could be seen in the exhaust of every turbo-prop engine aircraft so someone might have mistaken it as fire.

“There is a strong possibility that while taking a turn in the air soon after the take-off, the aircraft might have lost the altitude. It is common that aircrafts lose altitude while taking turns that is why they wait to achieve a considerable altitude before taking the turn.”

“In this case, it appears, that the pilot took the turn before achieving the safe altitude and when the aircraft lost some altitude it hit some high-tension wire. But everything will be clear once the investigations are complete.”

He said PIA had a fleet of seven Fokker aircraft from 250 Series — four based at Islamabad and three based at Karachi. The one that crashed was Islamabad-based with registration number BAL. With Monday’s crash, PIA has been left with six aircraft.

The 44-seater aircraft that crashed on Monday was manufactured by Fokker De Haviland of Holland in February 1964 and was inducted into PIA fleet on January 24, 1979. It had done 73,586 hours of flying with 83,480 landings till date.

The Fokker aircraft, which was flown for the first time in 1955, had a total of 186 serious accidents all over the world with a total hull loss of 160 aircraft. The company that manufactured a total of 786 stopped the production of this aircraft in 1986.

Plane crashed due to operational problem

ISLAMABAD: PIA’s plane was crashed due to operational problem, said Civil Aviation sources.

The sources told ‘The News’ that according to a preliminary report of a team of experts, sent to Multan to probe the cause of disaster, the plane crashed due to operational problem. “The aircraft took off with Flap Zero,” the sources quoting the report said. Although, the plane had capacity to take off with ‘Flap Zero’ but it was overweight, they added.

“This is, simply, a human error in such situation when the plane was overweight, the weather was hot and flaps were closed”, sources maintained. “The captain overlooked to open the flaps or he ignored as a routine,” sources maintained. It could be ignored in cold weather and less weight, they added. But the pilot took risk in hot weather and overweighed plane. “The weight was almost double of the capacity and the hundreds of mango cartons were loaded on the plane,” sources disclosed.

Meanwhile, a 35-member team of Emergency Response Centre (ERC) has been sent to Multan for a detailed investigation of the disaster. The team would submit the inquiry report to the ministry of defence as soon as possible, the sources added. “It may take a couple of days or even two months,” they maintained.

Source: http://www.geo.tv/important_events/plan ... h_news.asp[/b]

[Che]

People who are using this tragic incident to vent their personal prejuidice against older planes are doing a great disservice to all the parties involved...

If an ATR would have been overloaded as apparently this plane was and proper preflight checks and procedures not followed, it would have probably lead to the same disasterous results...

The other crash of the F-27 in Pakistan a few years ago which killed the ACM Mir, was due to Pilot error...age/mechanical failure were not determined to have been factors in that crash..

[Moin]

Irrespective of whether the plane was overloaded or not, a/c of this vintage belong in either a museum or the scrapyard. Parts are becoming more hard to find and are expensive and it would not surprise me if maintenance would occasionally skimp on thing or two. What else can be done if parts are not available? On the other hand they deserve all the credit for being able to keep these a/c still flying.

These a/c should have been retired a good 10 years back, and the fact that the engine caught fire and whether it had anything to do with the fact that the a/c was overloaded or the flaps were not at the correct setting is secondary. Pilot error was also the cause of the Khatmandu AB4 crash but there was also a fault in the flap mechanism of the a/c.

[PALPA]

Yes!
Mr. Omer Cheema is saying absolutely right!!!

We should rather say prayers for the demised crew instead of blaming them

[Abbas Ali]

No plans to ban Fokker: Chief Justice of Pakistan

MULTAN: Chief Justice of Pakistan Justice Iftikhar Ahmed Chaudhry has said that the Supreme Court is not considering banning Fokker planes flights because it is purely technical matter and judiciary hopes the present government would initiate steps following through probe.

Talking to journalists soon after his arrival in Multan in a special plane along with the SC judges to condole the family of Justice Nazir Siddiqi on Tuesday, the CJP said the Supreme Court was not initiating judicial inquiry into plane crash.

However, he said: “If the government requests in this connection the Lahore High Court Chief Justice would have to decide the matter.

The CJP said the Civil Aviation Authority officials should deal the affairs carefully while investigation into plane crash was underway.

He said banning the flights or not banning them is purely subject to the government instead of the Supreme Court.

The CJP said in fact Fokker planes are considered more reliable, safe and he personally fly in the plane for many times, however the death of judges and other valuable people is a great loss.

He prayed Allah for the soul of deceased judges and others and said Justice Nazir Ahmed Siddiqi was an honest, committed and dedicated judge.

He hoped that his children would follow their fathers’ path and the CJP said Siddiqi was not judge but also their brother and his children can touch them at any time for any service.

Source: The News

[Abbas Ali]

Air crash victims laid to rest amid tears

MAILSI: The Nimaz-e-Janaza of three victims of PIA Fokker plane crash including the niece of PML acting president MNA Makhdoom Javed Hashmi were offered at two different places in the tehsil.

The bodies of PIA traffic officer Muhammad Salim Shah Hashmi and his wife and the niece of Makhdoom Javed Hashmi, Kanwal Iqbal Hashmi reached Basti Saher, some 36 kilometres from here, on Monday night.

ARD central leader Makhdoom Javed Hashmi, who was released on parole by the government, PML provincial senior vice-president Saeed Ahmad Manais and thousands of people attended the Nimaz-e-Janaza.

Later Muhammad Salim Shah Hashmi, who was the cousin of union nazim Saher Syed Altaf Hussain Shah was laid to rest at his native graveyard while the body of Kunwal Iqbal Hashmi was sent to her native town Makhdoom Rasheed, where her Nimaz-e-Janaza was offered again at the shrine of Hazrat Makhdoom Rasheed and she was buried.

Meanwhile, the Nimaz-e-Janaza of Kepco’s maintenance manager Chaudhry Muhammad Aslam Shad was offered at his native village Ghaloo, some 15 kilometres away from here, on Monday night. The body had reached about 8pm and soon after the arrival of the body, Nimaz-e-Janaza was offered, which was attended by hundreds of people. He was son of Chaudhry Ghulam Chishty.

Funeral prayer for Justice Nawaz Bhatti of the Lahore High Court was offered at the compound of Government High School Sangla Hill on Tuesday.

A large number of locals, his friends and relatives including Chief Justice of LHC, Justice Iftikhar Hussain Ch, Justice Karamat Bhandari, Justice Hamid Humayun, Justice Syed Zahid Hussain, Chief Justice Raja Riaz (retd), Senator Naeem Chattha, District and Sessions Judge Ehsan Ch, Nankana Sahib District and Sessions Judge Sheikh Yousaf and members of national and provincial assemblies attended it.

Earlier, the funeral prayer of Justice Nazir Ahmed Siddiqi was offered at Gulgasht Aligarh school under the leadership of Moulana Abdur Rehman.

Over 1500 people attended the funeral prayer, among them were prominent include: LHC Multan bench judges Justice Molvi Anwarul Haq, Justice Tariq Shahmim, Justice Arshad Jehangir, Justice Asghar Haider, City Nazim Mian Faisal Mukhtar, district bar association president Syed Athar Shah Bukhari, general secretary Malik Amjad Ali, Multan high court bar association president Mehmood Ashraf Khan, general secretary Qari Anwarul Haq, senior lawyers Sheikh Fahim, Habibullah Shakir, Kanwar Intizar Muhammad Khan, Arif Alvi, Rana Bashir Ahmed Noon, Mashkoor Sabri, Syed Irfan Haider Shamsi, Rashid Rehman and others.

Deputy Attorney General Dr Sohail Ahmad was laid to rest at his ancestor graveyard at Gulberg T Block on Tuesday morning.

A large number of people from different walks of life attended the funeral ceremony. The Supreme Court judges Justice Khalil-ur-Rehman Ramday, Justice Falak Sher, Lahore High Court judges Justice Kh Muhammad Sharif, Justice Mian Najam-uz-Zaman, Justice Mian Saqib Nisar and Justice Syed Hamid Ali Shah, Dr Khalid Ranjah, additional advocate general Mohammad Akbar Tarar, Punjab bar council member Safdar Tarar, deputy attorney general Dr Danishwar Malik and a larger number of lawyers attended the prayers.

Two crewmembers were buried at different graveyards of Lahore while the body of airhostess Tabana Jamil was sent to her home at Sharaqpur.

Emotional scenes were witnessed when the bodies of crew members were brought to their homes. The relatives and friends and colleagues of PK-688 crew members attended the funeral.

The body of Hamid Riaz Qureshi, Capt of the plane, was brought in ambulance to his place at Theatre stop Badian Road Lahore Cantt. A large number of PIA officials, his friends and relatives attended the funeral.

Later he was buried at PAF graveyard on Tuesday morning. Hamid Riaz was born on January 6, 1953 and he joined PIA on December 7, 1989.

The body of airhostess Aamira Sikander was brought to her place at Johar Town in ambulance. Funeral of Aamira, mother of three children, was held at 170-B Johar Town and she was buried in Garden Town graveyard. She was born on November 9, 1968 and she joined PIA in 1992.

The body of airhostess Tabana Jamil was brought to Lahore in PIA flight PK-386 at around 12:45 noon. Her body was taken to Sharaqpur in Ambulance. She was born on July 1, 1982 and she joined PIA in 2004. Brig Aftab Ahmed was laid to rest at native village Dhoke Talian, Chakwal.

Source: The News

[Abbas Ali]

Fokker fleet still airworthy, says PIA

MULTAN: The Fokker-27 aircraft of the Pakistan International Airlines (PIA) are still airworthy by any international standards with 7,000 life cycles left, a PIA spokesman said on Tuesday.

“The notion that the aircraft crashed near Multan on Monday just because it was old and not worthy of flying is incorrect,” the spokesman said, adding that airworthiness is determined by flying hours and not the age of the aircraft.

The PIA, he said, never compromises on the maintenance of its fleet and the national airline has one of the best engineering facilities in the aviation world. The PIA is providing these facilities to other airlines as well, he added.

The spokesman said PIA maintains its aircraft as per the international standards and the Fokker aircraft involved in the incident also underwent routine check and maintenance jobs like any other aircraft.

According to the spokesman, the PIA has already initiated a plan to replace its Fokker fleet well in time before the aircraft complete the flying hours and airworthiness period. The Fokker replacement plan involves procurement of seven ATR 42-500 turboprop aircraft.

Source: The News

[Abbas Ali]

Public Notice by PIA in today's newspapers (July 12, 2006)

[Abbas Ali]

Here's a photo sent by Werner Fischdick from Germany. The photo shows AP-BAL in markings of its previous operator French regional airline TAT (Transport Aérien Transrégional) under registration F-BUFE. PIA purchased it from TAT in January 1979.


F-BUFE at London-Heathrow Airport on August 2, 1974 - Copyright Werner Fischdick

[muddassir]

The discussion on the tragic Fokker crash has unecessarily focussed on the the age of the fleet, without anyone yet knowing what caused the accident. Most unfortunate was to hear Chairman PALPA, Capt Hamza on a private news channel immediately after the crash on Jul 10. HE made following remarks:
- Its only OLD planes that crash.
- PIA fokkers are 40 to 50 years old. At this age even a person in a house is not looked after well, what to talk of an old aircraft.
- THe Fokker company has topped making the spae parts for F-27.

HE also blamed PIA that Fokkers are kept serviceable only on papers where as actually they are not flyworthy and since most of the Fokker Flights operate between small cities and low income people travelk on these flights, PIA does not invest in the maintenance of Fokker Fleet.

I wonder how can a professional airline pilot at such a responsible position make such remarks and allegations. Being a professional aviator myself I cant believe that PIA indulged in such practices. If indeed it was so, how come Mr Hamza still opt to Fly with PIA and elected to remain Chairman PALPA. And where is the CAA?

ANd by the way, out of 14 major incidents of PIA Fokker (listed in airsefaty.net and reproduced by The News on 11 Jul, only 2 are directly related to technical problems. Rest all are caused by operational reasons and weather like overshoot/under shoot the runway on approach or take off, flight into terrain in bad wx, hitting mountains in northern areas etc. Those caused by technical factorsone during stall recovery practice and one during single engine approach at DIK.

Even on this forum most of the members, majority of whom appear to be either pilots or related to aviation, have blamed the age of the fokker. As for as I know any aircraft which flies is never old, and the day it becomes OLD, it stops flying. Just to quote, the first C-130 ever built is still in operational service. Does any flight manual or checklist specify performance graphs based on age of the engines or airframe?.Or do the pilots accept a lower take off rating, a longer taker off roll or reduced rate of climb for example if the aircraft is say 35 years old?. Age of an airworthy aircraft only effects the economics of operation and some difficulties in spares procurement. FULL STOP.

Regards[/list]

[Abbas Ali]

Govt rejects terror in Fokker crash

Rao Sikandar says probe report to be declassified in two months; compensation increased; black-box found

MULTAN: Defence Minister Rao Sikandar Iqbal has ruled out the possibility of a terror attack or sabotage in the Fokker crash but he was convinced that ageing Fokkers should be grounded.

Talking to journalists at crash site Raj Ghat on Tuesday, the minister announced increase in compensation from Rs 200,000 to Rs 600,000 to each passenger's family after consultation with Prime Minister Shaukat Aziz.

He said a Dutch team had reached Islamabad to investigate the cause of accident and the probe report would be declassified within two months. He added that the Ministry of Defence had directed the Civil Aviation Authority Director General to immediately constitute a board of inquiry to probe the causes of the accident and the team headed by Air Cdr M Junaid Amin, President Safety Investigation Board of CAA, along with Wg Cdr Shahnawaz Dara, SVP Flight Safety had started its work. "The team has already reached the site and has taken control of important data including the black-box and investigating the matter. We are trying to hold inquiry on the fastest track and soon the report will be submitted," he maintained.

Paying tribute to pilot Captain Hamid and Co-Pilot Abrar Chughtai, he said the pilot tried his best to land the plane safely but it got entangled with high voltage wires and crashed. "Neither the plane was sabotaged nor fire erupted soon after the take-off," the minister stressed. He said he was the first person who had raised voices in parliament to ground old Fokkers.

The minister said some members of parliament had also raised their voice against the use of aging Fokkers. As a result the government had made a deal for purchase of seven ATR planes to replace the Fokkers. "Of these seven planes, we have got one while two others will be received in November or December while four others by June 2007," he said.

Expressing his grief over the loss of human lives, the minister said this was a sad incident but it was not sufficient reason for grounding the Fokkers. He said the normal life of Fokkers was 90,000 hours of flying and two planes had been grounded after completing their life.

He said that he had got approved a compensation money worth Rs 400,000 for the heirs of each victim from the Pakistan government, while the PIA would pay Rs 200,00 to the relatives of each deceased. Rao said his ministry has directed the relevant agencies to make appropriate arrangements for rescue and other activities.

He further said that the ill-fated aircraft was thoroughly checked and cleared by the PIA Engineering Department, who declared it fit for flying. "A report received by the PIA and CAA says that the airworthiness of the plane was regularly checked by the CAA and no fault was detected," he maintained and added that the exact causes of the crash would be known after thorough investigation and examination of relevant equipment and data including the black-box.

Responding to a query, he said the Multan Airport widening project would be launched soon. Agencies add: An investigation team has been examining the wreckage of the 38-year-old Dutch-built turboprop. The plane's black-box data recorder was recovered from the burnt-out wreckage and has been sent to experts in Karachi for analysis, Multan airport manager Ahsan Mehboob said. Representatives from the Fokker company were also expected here in a couple of days to join the probe, he added.

Source: The News