Would a A340 be good for PIA

[HassanKhan]

An A330 has problems, why not buy or lease a A340 from Lufthansa or a A350 from FinAir.

Any idea whats wrong with A330s, for discussion sake

It looks a little small, I have been obsessed how big the A340 is. Even Qatar Airways had a A340 with nice business class, but sadly retired them in 2019.

The a330s and the a340s were identical in size except for a few larger a340 variants which are very rare

[PIA330]

An A330 has problems, why not buy or lease a A340 from Lufthansa or a A350 from FinAir.

Any idea whats wrong with A330s, for discussion sake

It looks a little small, I have been obsessed how big the A340 is. Even Qatar Airways had a A340 with nice business class, but sadly retired them in 2019.

The a330s and the a340s were identical in size except for a few larger a340 variants which are very rare

The Lufthansa A340-600 have underground lavatories.

I love the A340-600, If PIA could buy those used ones after the Privatization. I would be much better.

[PIA330]

PIA didn't acquired A340s then and gone for B777s, so how you expect that PIA will replace its B777s with the outdated machine A340s? and B747s are history, long ago got retired

Tribute to Pakistan International Boeing 747s by Raihan S.R. Bakhsh, on Flickr

i am looking at PIA's need for Boeing 787-8s and 787-9s for B777s replacement according to range/capacity and A321s along with existing fleet of A320s to extend range/capacity; and to go with this, PIA need a lot of money which can only be injected by the buyer, if privatization plan works this time

That's a great option and they need to look at a A350 for B777s. They should induct a A321XLR, the buyer will have to inject new money into PIA to make sure it profitable. This Privatization Attempt is much better, as we have YB Holdings and Arif Habib as the current bidders still. The 3rd bidder will be participating to buy PIA, sources say they hold significant influence and they will come as a surprise.

The XLRs are still new jets so they would either have to buy them from Airbus themselves which is long and expensive or buy a second hand one which would still be expensive and difficult to find

Then they should stick with Refurbishing the Current A320s cabin.

[GEnx]

PIA does not need bigger business class cabins like Lufthansa or ME3 airlines. Business class market in Pakistan is much smaller compared to other rich countries around the globe. Tbh, PIAmust go for smallest possible aircraft, configure it mostly with economy class seating with a smaller business class cabin, and then try to have as much frequencies as possible. At the moment, Wide-body operation to EU destinations does not make any sense. Why not try to get A321XLR or even B737 max8 and max7 have the range to cover EU destinations. For widebody, try getting mixture of A330ceo and A330 neo (ceo for regional flights, neo for UK, EU or even US/Canada if ordered 251 tons A330-800).

[AviationLover2020]

The Lufthansa A340-600 have underground lavatories.

I love the A340-600, If PIA could buy those used ones after the Privatization. I would be much better.

Buying an old fuel inefficient aircraft with a shrinking spare parts market just because it has underground lavatories sounds exactly like the decision making process of PIA executives. You may yet have some hope of seeing your dreams fulfilled.

[PIA330]

The Lufthansa A340-600 have underground lavatories.

I love the A340-600, If PIA could buy those used ones after the Privatization. I would be much better.

Buying an old fuel inefficient aircraft with a shrinking spare parts market just because it has underground lavatories sounds exactly like the decision making process of PIA executives. You may yet have some hope of seeing your dreams fulfilled.

Its not about the bathrooms, A340 has first class, business class, Premium Economy and Economy. It could satisfy those Pakistanis coming from UK and America/Canada, as we know UK and America/Canada spend so money on plane tickets with Qatar and Emirates to visit Pakistan. Our Pakistani Diaspora love to make TikToks on PIA's cabin conditions.

I will see my dream come true, PIA having a A350 and B787.

[HassanKhan]

The Lufthansa A340-600 have underground lavatories.

I love the A340-600, If PIA could buy those used ones after the Privatization. I would be much better.

Buying an old fuel inefficient aircraft with a shrinking spare parts market just because it has underground lavatories sounds exactly like the decision making process of PIA executives. You may yet have some hope of seeing your dreams fulfilled.

Its not about the bathrooms, A340 has first class, business class, Premium Economy and Economy. It could satisfy those Pakistanis coming from UK and America/Canada, as we know UK and America/Canada spend so money on plane tickets with Qatar and Emirates to visit Pakistan. Our Pakistani Diaspora love to make TikToks on PIA's cabin conditions.

I will see my dream come true, PIA having a A350 and B787.

Every jet can have a tri-class layout. It's not about the jet it's about to the airlines choice. Pakistan is a price sensitive market and that's why business and first class is not popular here. As for upper class overseas Pakistanis they would choose ME3 business class over any. Even if PIA refurbishes their premium products it still won't match the quality of ME3. Also amongst overseas Pakistanis, and people in general, PIA does not have a good reputation so if they are paying that much they would might as well spend it on another airline.

[galactical]

I definitely think that while an A340 may have the capacity, we must consider why it’s not used so often anymore. Its efficiency isn’t ideal, and is generally not a great option for the airline.

For long haul routes, PIA should continue to use its B777’s and repair new ones, as mentioned a how old an aircraft is doesn’t matter as long as it’s in good condition. If PIA choose to operate new long haul aircraft, I agree that the A321XLR would be good, these could be deployed on routes to potentially Beijing, Kuala Lumpur (likely with more frequencies), which would reduce pressure on the 777 family, so they can be used more on European routes, and also ensure the airline can maintain their frequencies to the East.

I think PIA should upgrade their ATR fleet within the next 3 years. The Pakistani Government keeps wanting to reopen routes to Saidu Sharif and Chitral, so if the demand is there PIA should replace their ATR fleet. My suggestion would be the most logical step: upgrade from the ATR 42-500 to the newer -600’s.

This reduces training costs and ensures more familiarity for the crew, while also upgrading the regional fleet and expanding it. Should the investor decide to do this, they can then ensure that the ATR fleet doesn’t become a massive problem in the future. They could initially begin replacing them one by one, and potentially expand back to roughly 4 or 5 ATR aircraft.

[Averagespotter]

I think PIA should upgrade their ATR fleet within the next 3 years. The Pakistani Government keeps wanting to reopen routes to Saidu Sharif and Chitral, so if the demand is there PIA should replace their ATR fleet. My suggestion would be the most logical step: upgrade from the ATR 42-500 to the newer -600’s.

This reduces training costs and ensures more familiarity for the crew, while also upgrading the regional fleet and expanding it. Should the investor decide to do this, they can then ensure that the ATR fleet doesn’t become a massive problem in the future. They could initially begin replacing them one by one, and potentially expand back to roughly 4 or 5 ATR aircraft.

What do you think about using the ERJ175 E2 or A220 on these routes?

[Usman123]

Current management can't arrange 2 GE engine for BGY instead put on one from BHV still you think they can manage 4 engine gas burner like a A340, Airblue leased A340 back in the day for high demand UK routes still didn't manage to lease another Widebody after that intensive damage.

New avgeeks dont focus that a new plane type is not just a plane it comes with a whole bunch of operational challenges!
Airline needs to procure each and every part from abroad!
A single over head bin if broken costs thousand dollars! Things like
Spare wheels, Spare blades for engine in case of bird strike, spare engine, repair facilities, trained technician, pilots, crew, emergency exit training for crew, spare seats, APUs, emergency equipment, ground handling equipment etc

PIA has 777 simulator so new 777s aren't a problem any new widebody has massive costs and can only be profitable with economies of scale or in the longer term.

The only option is more 777s or complete induction of a new type 787/A350, which will at least serve the airline next 25 years just like these 777s did

[galactical]

I think PIA should upgrade their ATR fleet within the next 3 years. The Pakistani Government keeps wanting to reopen routes to Saidu Sharif and Chitral, so if the demand is there PIA should replace their ATR fleet. My suggestion would be the most logical step: upgrade from the ATR 42-500 to the newer -600’s.

This reduces training costs and ensures more familiarity for the crew, while also upgrading the regional fleet and expanding it. Should the investor decide to do this, they can then ensure that the ATR fleet doesn’t become a massive problem in the future. They could initially begin replacing them one by one, and potentially expand back to roughly 4 or 5 ATR aircraft.

What do you think about using the ERJ175 E2 or A220 on these routes?

The ERJ or A220 do make sense to an extent, although I do think they may be a bit unnecessary, specifically for the time being. These aircraft are definitely a lot larger than the ATR, and the ATR and A320 have been serving a pretty good mix for the range of domestic routes. I’m also not sure how the ERJ or A220 would perform at airports like Gilgit. Overall, it would be a lot more costly and require new training programs, simulators and these aircraft would have to be certified to these remote locations.

For context, the average brand new ATR 42-600 is selling is roughly $20-25 million (they could always lease some used ones too for a cheaper cost), whereas the average selling price for a new A220 is $80 million.

[HassanKhan]

I think PIA should upgrade their ATR fleet within the next 3 years. The Pakistani Government keeps wanting to reopen routes to Saidu Sharif and Chitral, so if the demand is there PIA should replace their ATR fleet. My suggestion would be the most logical step: upgrade from the ATR 42-500 to the newer -600’s.

This reduces training costs and ensures more familiarity for the crew, while also upgrading the regional fleet and expanding it. Should the investor decide to do this, they can then ensure that the ATR fleet doesn’t become a massive problem in the future. They could initially begin replacing them one by one, and potentially expand back to roughly 4 or 5 ATR aircraft.

What do you think about using the ERJ175 E2 or A220 on these routes?

The ERJ or A220 do make sense to an extent, although I do think they may be a bit unnecessary, specifically for the time being. These aircraft are definitely a lot larger than the ATR, and the ATR and A320 have been serving a pretty good mix for the range of domestic routes. I’m also not sure how the ERJ or A220 would perform at airports like Gilgit. Overall, it would be a lot more costly and require new training programs, simulators and these aircraft would have to be certified to these remote locations.

For context, the average brand new ATR 42-600 is selling is roughly $20-25 million (they could always lease some used ones too for a cheaper cost), whereas the average selling price for a new A220 is $80 million.

On top of this, the A220s are out of the question right now because of the supply chain issues giving headaches to big airlines and would definitely trouble PIA.

[PIA330]

The Lufthansa A340-600 have underground lavatories.

I love the A340-600, If PIA could buy those used ones after the Privatization. I would be much better.

Buying an old fuel inefficient aircraft with a shrinking spare parts market just because it has underground lavatories sounds exactly like the decision making process of PIA executives. You may yet have some hope of seeing your dreams fulfilled.

Its not about the bathrooms, A340 has first class, business class, Premium Economy and Economy. It could satisfy those Pakistanis coming from UK and America/Canada, as we know UK and America/Canada spend so money on plane tickets with Qatar and Emirates to visit Pakistan. Our Pakistani Diaspora love to make TikToks on PIA's cabin conditions.

I will see my dream come true, PIA having a A350 and B787.

Every jet can have a tri-class layout. It's not about the jet it's about to the airlines choice. Pakistan is a price sensitive market and that's why business and first class is not popular here. As for upper class overseas Pakistanis they would choose ME3 business class over any. Even if PIA refurbishes their premium products it still won't match the quality of ME3. Also amongst overseas Pakistanis, and people in general, PIA does not have a good reputation so if they are paying that much they would might as well spend it on another airline.

PIA has potential to be like the ME3 airlines, we should be like the ME3. Our cabin,and services.

[PIA330]

Current management can't arrange 2 GE engine for BGY instead put on one from BHV still you think they can manage 4 engine gas burner like a A340, Airblue leased A340 back in the day for high demand UK routes still didn't manage to lease another Widebody after that intensive damage.

New avgeeks dont focus that a new plane type is not just a plane it comes with a whole bunch of operational challenges!
Airline needs to procure each and every part from abroad!
A single over head bin if broken costs thousand dollars! Things like
Spare wheels, Spare blades for engine in case of bird strike, spare engine, repair facilities, trained technician, pilots, crew, emergency exit training for crew, spare seats, APUs, emergency equipment, ground handling equipment etc

PIA has 777 simulator so new 777s aren't a problem any new widebody has massive costs and can only be profitable with economies of scale or in the longer term.

The only option is more 777s or complete induction of a new type 787/A350, which will at least serve the airline next 25 years just like these 777s did

After Privatization, the new buyers will induct 787/A350 by dry leasing or buying full on cash.

[Averagespotter]

The Lufthansa A340-600 have underground lavatories.

I love the A340-600, If PIA could buy those used ones after the Privatization. I would be much better.

Buying an old fuel inefficient aircraft with a shrinking spare parts market just because it has underground lavatories sounds exactly like the decision making process of PIA executives. You may yet have some hope of seeing your dreams fulfilled.

Its not about the bathrooms, A340 has first class, business class, Premium Economy and Economy. It could satisfy those Pakistanis coming from UK and America/Canada, as we know UK and America/Canada spend so money on plane tickets with Qatar and Emirates to visit Pakistan. Our Pakistani Diaspora love to make TikToks on PIA's cabin conditions.

I will see my dream come true, PIA having a A350 and B787.

Every jet can have a tri-class layout. It's not about the jet it's about to the airlines choice. Pakistan is a price sensitive market and that's why business and first class is not popular here. As for upper class overseas Pakistanis they would choose ME3 business class over any. Even if PIA refurbishes their premium products it still won't match the quality of ME3. Also amongst overseas Pakistanis, and people in general, PIA does not have a good reputation so if they are paying that much they would might as well spend it on another airline.

PIA has potential to be like the ME3 airlines, we should be like the ME3. Our cabin,and services.

Not really, the ME3 cater to middle to high income groups whereas PIA only caters to Pakistanis who are more price sensitive (with the exception of Pakistanis in Canada and America). PIA has a natural monopoly over a lot of routes owing to their position in pakistan, but at the end of the day, it doesn't make sense to offer premium services to consumers who would much rather get to their destination for cheaper. PIA should focus on maintaining a basic standard (cleanliness, maintenance wise) but to go as far as providing first class seats is a bit of a stretch in my opinion. An economy, economy premium and business class configuration would make the most sense on long haul flights with aircrafts like b787 or a350 (easier to fill compared to a b777 which can be used on high capacity routes like MAN to ISB).