Over 130 Pakistani pilots ‘grounded’ as airlines favour foreign talent

[Karachi Aviator]

KARACHI: More than 130 Pakistani pilots have been grounded as their licenses are being held by Pakistan Civil Aviation Authority (PCAA), the Aircraft Owners and Operators Association (AOOA) said in a statement.

In a statement issued on Tuesday, the AOOA said that 130 flight crew (pilots) licenses are pending for the issuance and their flying has been stopped as PCAA unable to sign them off.

It has also criticised the hiring practices of local airlines, especially their preference for foreign pilots over hundreds of local and unemployed aviators.

“This trend not only sidelined hundreds of Pakistani pilots but also resulted in substantial financial implications, as international pilots were reportedly receiving salaries ranging between $9,500 and $15,000, payable in foreign currency,” the statement added.

It also alleged that these foreign pilots were benefiting from tax exemptions, a matter it suggested should warrant scrutiny from the Federal Board of Revenue and intervention by the government.

It also claimed that foreign pilots were reportedly working without proper work visas, adding: “We demand the FIA to investigate the permission of foreign pilots to fly without a visa.”

The association warned that such an “illegal move” might attract objections from international regulatory bodies like the International Civil Aviation Organisation and the European Aviation Safety Agency.

https://arynews.tv/over-130-pakistani-p ... alent/amp/

[Tuti Fruiti]

lets see if one day another minister makes a statement that *many pakistani doctors degrees are fake** or *many enigneers and mba people have fake degrees*.. then all over the world hundreds of thousands of diaspora will pay the price of such type of slip of tongue... i wish Ghulam Sarwar , the previous aviation minister, is arrested and put behind prison for rest of his life for making such a disasterous statement for Aviation Industry

[faisal-777]

lets see if one day another minister makes a statement that *many pakistani doctors degrees are fake** or *many enigneers and mba people have fake degrees*.. then all over the world hundreds of thousands of diaspora will pay the price of such type of slip of tongue... i wish Ghulam Sarwar , the previous aviation minister, is arrested and put behind prison for rest of his life for making such a disasterous statement for Aviation Industry

A lot has flown under the bridge since his statement. It is no longer about his statement, but about CAA not moving forward to rectify the system and built trust in it.

[Tuti Fruiti]

lets see if one day another minister makes a statement that *many pakistani doctors degrees are fake** or *many enigneers and mba people have fake degrees*.. then all over the world hundreds of thousands of diaspora will pay the price of such type of slip of tongue... i wish Ghulam Sarwar , the previous aviation minister, is arrested and put behind prison for rest of his life for making such a disasterous statement for Aviation Industry

A lot has flown under the bridge since his statement. It is no longer about his statement, but about CAA not moving forward to rectify the system and built trust in it.

thats also true... it has been quite a long time and it seems Europe is not interested and worst case is Canada banning PIA as well

[contrails]

CAA should be held accountable. Period.

[aspilot]

The accountability of CAA is crucial in addressing this issue. Globally, airlines often prioritize their nationals and offer training programs to enhance the aviation sector. Unfortunately, in Pakistan, a focus on short-term solutions has led to the neglect of hiring cadets or experienced Flight Instructors (FIs), coupled with the practice of offering high salaries, ranging from $9k to $12k, to foreign pilots, ultimately harming the industry and the economy.

[Karachi Aviator]

As far as private airlines are concerned, they aren't a burden on taxpayers, PIA is! It's really upto them who they prefer. At the end of the day, they are businesses not welfare organisations. These pressure groups like AOOA have no right to criticise the private airlines whatsoever. The fact that we have 4 private airlines in Pakistan is in itself nothing less than a miracle, given how poor our policies are.

Does any private carrier follow CSR??

[NL]

What that article really meant to say is "airlines prefer properly trained and licensed pilots, despite the much higher costs". But of course, they couldn't let a chance for blaming those evil foreigners go to waste!

[aspilot]

As far as private airlines are concerned, they aren't a burden on taxpayers, PIA is! It's really upto them who they prefer. At the end of the day, they are businesses not welfare organisations. These pressure groups like AOOA have no right to criticise the private airlines whatsoever. The fact that we have 4 private airlines in Pakistan is in itself nothing less than a miracle, given how poor our policies are.

Does any private carrier follow CSR??

If they are a private business entity, please help me explain just based on simplified financial analysis,

Hiring Local Cadet Pilot:

Training Cost: $25k-$30k ( thats if the airlines sponsors the initial training costs)
Monthly Salary: Assuming PKR 3.5 lakhs/month
Annual Salary Cost: PKR 3.5 lakhs/month * 12 months = PKR 42 lakhs
Total First Year Cost: Training Cost + Annual Salary Cost
Total First Year Cost: Annual Salary Cost (if the cadet self-sponsors)


Hiring Foreign Pilot:

Monthly Salary: approx $12k based on the article
Annual Salary Cost: $12k/month * 12 months = $144k
Total First Year Cost: Training Cost (if applicable) + Annual Salary Cost

Considerations:

Local Cadet Pilot:
The advantage of hiring local cadets lies in the potential reduction of initial costs associated with training investments. The long-term benefits are substantial, as airlines stand to save significantly on salaries, especially when cadets commit to an extended service period of 4-5 years. In the current market dynamics of supply and demand, it's not uncommon for airlines to require cadets to cover their own type rating and training expenses. Local airlines can establish contracts with prominent training organizations, such as CAE, similar to practices observed in airlines like Ryanair or FlyDubai. This approach allows airlines to realize considerable savings, potentially amounting to hundreds of thousands in flight crew salaries.

Foreign Pilot:
Certainly, I agree. While foreign pilots contribute immediate expertise and competence, the question arises about the long-term sustainability for the airline. Could this approach potentially harm our aviation industry and, consequently, our economy by disbursing substantial salaries in dollars to foreign pilots? Additionally, does it not adversely impact our PAKISTANI AIRLINE PILOTS who receive comparatively lower remuneration in PKR than their foreign counterparts?

Conclusions:

Others countries have implemented labor protection laws and regulations to safeguard the interests of their domestic workforce, particularly in sectors like aviation. These regulations apply not only to national entities but also extend to private companies. The primary objective of such laws is to prioritize the employment of local over foreign counterparts, fostering job opportunities for citizens and nurturing the growth of domestic talent. If you've ever explored job opportunities as a pilot abroad, you've likely noticed that many job descriptions emphasize the necessity for the pilot to have the legal right to work in the respective country. Other nations enforce these preferences to protect their industries and prioritize their citizens. It raises a pertinent question: why shouldn't we do the same? While airlines may seek experienced and rated pilots for operational efficiency, our government and laws should play a pivotal role in safeguarding the interests of our aviation industry and the well-being of Pakistani professionals.

[Karachi Aviator]

As far as private airlines are concerned, they aren't a burden on taxpayers, PIA is! It's really upto them who they prefer. At the end of the day, they are businesses not welfare organisations. These pressure groups like AOOA have no right to criticise the private airlines whatsoever. The fact that we have 4 private airlines in Pakistan is in itself nothing less than a miracle, given how poor our policies are.

Does any private carrier follow CSR??

If they are a private business entity, please help me explain just based on simplified financial analysis,

Hiring Local Cadet Pilot:

Training Cost: $25k-$30k ( thats if the airlines sponsors the initial training costs)
Monthly Salary: Assuming PKR 3.5 lakhs/month
Annual Salary Cost: PKR 3.5 lakhs/month * 12 months = PKR 42 lakhs
Total First Year Cost: Training Cost + Annual Salary Cost
Total First Year Cost: Annual Salary Cost (if the cadet self-sponsors)


Hiring Foreign Pilot:

Monthly Salary: approx $12k based on the article
Annual Salary Cost: $12k/month * 12 months = $144k
Total First Year Cost: Training Cost (if applicable) + Annual Salary Cost

Considerations:

Local Cadet Pilot:
The advantage of hiring local cadets lies in the potential reduction of initial costs associated with training investments. The long-term benefits are substantial, as airlines stand to save significantly on salaries, especially when cadets commit to an extended service period of 4-5 years. In the current market dynamics of supply and demand, it's not uncommon for airlines to require cadets to cover their own type rating and training expenses. Local airlines can establish contracts with prominent training organizations, such as CAE, similar to practices observed in airlines like Ryanair or FlyDubai. This approach allows airlines to realize considerable savings, potentially amounting to hundreds of thousands in flight crew salaries.

Foreign Pilot:
Certainly, I agree. While foreign pilots contribute immediate expertise and competence, the question arises about the long-term sustainability for the airline. Could this approach potentially harm our aviation industry and, consequently, our economy by disbursing substantial salaries in dollars to foreign pilots? Additionally, does it not adversely impact our PAKISTANI AIRLINE PILOTS who receive comparatively lower remuneration in PKR than their foreign counterparts?

Conclusions:

Others countries have implemented labor protection laws and regulations to safeguard the interests of their domestic workforce, particularly in sectors like aviation. These regulations apply not only to national entities but also extend to private companies. The primary objective of such laws is to prioritize the employment of local over foreign counterparts, fostering job opportunities for citizens and nurturing the growth of domestic talent. If you've ever explored job opportunities as a pilot abroad, you've likely noticed that many job descriptions emphasize the necessity for the pilot to have the legal right to work in the respective country. Other nations enforce these preferences to protect their industries and prioritize their citizens. It raises a pertinent question: why shouldn't we do the same? While airlines may seek experienced and rated pilots for operational efficiency, our government and laws should play a pivotal role in safeguarding the interests of our aviation industry and the well-being of Pakistani professionals.

Keeping the pros and cons aside (i am sure these airlines too are aware of these pros and cons), are these airlines breaking any law by hiring foreign pilots? NO!

Talking about labor protection laws, yes they ideally should exist but no such policy/ law comes in my mind where airlines are prohibited from hiring foreign pilots. Maybe the airlines don't want to spend time in training cadets, who knows. Airblue only recently got its first batch of cadet pilots, what about the rest??

You can apply such policies on national entities (PIA) because they run on our taxes but not on private entities which owe the taxpayers nothing.

Similarly, is the aviation industry big enough to apply these strict rules and regulations on? NO!: it's an infant industry.

[AviationLover2020]

A lot has flown under the bridge since his statement. It is no longer about his statement, but about CAA not moving forward to rectify the system and built trust in it.

This may be true, but it was this statement that was the catalyst/excuse for EASA to take the steps it did. They never seemed to have any problem with the (same old and incompetent) CAA for almost 15 years between the last PIA ban (which excluded 777s so still less severe than this) and the present one.

[arshad.altaf]

CAA snubs reports of grounding pilots

ISLAMABAD:
The Civil Aviation Authority (CAA) clarified on Tuesday that no pilot had been grounded, nor had the issuance or renewal of their licenses stalled, refuting media reports.

The CAA stated that the process of issuing or renewing licenses for pilots, in accordance with the Pakistan Civil Aviation Act, 2023, was ongoing and followed strict rules.

Contrary to media reports, the CAA denied blocking licenses for 130 Pakistan International Airlines (PIA) pilots, which would have grounded them.

The Aircraft Owners and Operators Association (AOOA) expressed concerns over the Pakistan Civil Aviation Act, 2023, arguing that shifting the authority to issue licenses from the director to the director general of the CAA was a misstep. This change allegedly left 130 PIA pilots without licenses and unemployed.

It maintained that because of the new law, the CAA was unable to issue licences to 130 PIA pilots, rendering them unemployed.

The association appealed to the federal aviation minister to take notice of the issue as the PIA was already facing a severe shortage of pilots. It pushed the government to make changes in the new law.

The AOOA further criticised the hiring practices of local airlines, especially their preference for foreign pilots over hundreds of local and unemployed ones.

It continued that this practice not only sidelined hundreds of Pakistani pilots but also resulted in substantial financial implications, as foreign ones were reportedly receiving salaries ranging between $9,500 and $15,000 in the form of dollars.

The association noted that this trend resulted in a significant outflow of dollars from the nation, urging local airlines to employ domestic pilots.

It also alleged that these foreign pilots were benefiting from tax exemptions -- a matter it suggested should warrant scrutiny from the Federal Board of Revenue and intervention by the government.

The CAA in its statement further clarified that local airlines hired foreign pilots and this was permissible under the authority’s rules.

These foreign pilots receive their work visas after clearance from the interior ministry and are subsequently issued with a verification certificate.

The authority added that the endorsements of the foreign pilots were renewed as per the rules at the request of the airlines.

https://tribune.com.pk/story/2457861/ca ... ing-pilots

[NL]

This may be true, but it was this statement that was the catalyst/excuse for EASA to take the steps it did. They never seemed to have any problem with the (same old and incompetent) CAA for almost 15 years between the last PIA ban (which excluded 777s so still less severe than this) and the present one.

It's not as if anyone in EASA believed the bullshit the CAA and PIA were peddling. It's just that in any jurisdiction were the rule of law still has meaning, authorities need proof before they can move forward with bans or other restrictions. Otherwise whatever they come up with would be successfully challenged in court, ruining they reputation in the process.

That kind of proof is hard to come by when the other side is a collection of wholesale corrupt government institutions in a far away country, all covering for one another. Only when that minister publicly stated what everyone had long suspected did EASA get a golden opportunity to finally take action, and the burden of proof effectively shifted to the pakistani side. Unsurprisingly, they're having a hard time getting things right, if only for lack of practice.

[TomcatTask]

A lot has flown under the bridge since his statement. It is no longer about his statement, but about CAA not moving forward to rectify the system and built trust in it.

This may be true, but it was this statement that was the catalyst/excuse for EASA to take the steps it did. They never seemed to have any problem with the (same old and incompetent) CAA for almost 15 years between the last PIA ban (which excluded 777s so still less severe than this) and the present one.

This may be true, but it was this statement that was the catalyst/excuse for EASA to take the steps it did. They never seemed to have any problem with the (same old and incompetent) CAA for almost 15 years between the last PIA ban (which excluded 777s so still less severe than this) and the present one.

It's not as if anyone in EASA believed the bullshit the CAA and PIA were peddling. It's just that in any jurisdiction were the rule of law still has meaning, authorities need proof before they can move forward with bans or other restrictions. Otherwise whatever they come up with would be successfully challenged in court, ruining they reputation in the process.

That kind of proof is hard to come by when the other side is a collection of wholesale corrupt government institutions in a far away country, all covering for one another. Only when that minister publicly stated what everyone had long suspected did EASA get a golden opportunity to finally take action, and the burden of proof effectively shifted to the pakistani side. Unsurprisingly, they're having a hard time getting things right, if only for lack of practice.

Maybe so, but after reading the AAIB report on PK 8303 it appears the issue of contention was the Safety Management System which PIA failed to address prior to the accident, doesn't seem to have to do with anything about the licenses. If anything the crash of PK8303 was the catalyst since had it been implemented its possible the accident could have been prevented.

For reference here's an excerpt from Page 137-8 of the AAIB report:

2.2.2.39 SMS Implementation
(a) Decision of EASA
(i) PIA was issued with the Third Country Operator (TCO) Authorization on
17th May, 2015. As part of the continuous monitoring, EASA carried out an
assessment of the PIA Operations under the TCO Authorization in order to assess
continued compliance of PIA with the applicable requirements of Annex-1 (Part-TCO).
(ii) ln the course of assessment (June-September, 2019), EASA raised one
Finding (Level-1) related to SMS which stated “PIA could not demonstrate having
effectively implemented all elements of a SMS as required by Annex-6 Part-1 and
Annex-19 to the Chicago Convention”. Corrective Action Plans (CAPs) to address
Level-1 Finding (proposed by PIA) was evaluated by EASA and was found insufficient
due to following:

The software application, for Safety Data Management, Risk Assessment
and Analysis including the Statistical Analysis and the ability to identify repeated or
similar hazards / occurrences was still under development.
• Insufficient evidence was provided confirming the complete
implementation of agreed CAPs related to functional reporting of Safety Action
Groups (SAGs) to the Corporate Safety Department as it did not contain revised policy
and related procedures.
• On 23rd October, 2019, PIA issued a policy to timely address the safety
reports. However, the submitted evidence revealed that since December, 2019 none
of these reports were processed as for instance the respective root causes were still
not identified.
• PIA proposed to develop extended guidance to facilitate the understanding
and the application of the management of change and to issue a Bulletin endorsed by
the accountable executive along with guidance material. Additionally, training was
planned for the involved staff. However, PIA could not provide suitable evidence of
complete implementation of this action.
• Submitted documents related to the measurement of Safety Performance
Indicators (SPIs) revealed that some of the SPIs were controlled by different
departments with different target settings. Furthermore, the submitted corporate SPIs
did not contain all indicators measured by the departments themselves.
(iii) EASA showed concern that the SMS was not achieving its primary
objective. PIA was unable to address CAPs within the agreed time period and TCO
authorization of PIA was suspended on 1st July, 2020.

[NL]

That excerpt from the report basically demonstrates how EASA had to carefully build their case: find something is wrong, give notice, get the other party to acknowledge the issue and come up with proposals for fixes, keep tabs on progress, evaluate the implementation of the fixes, conclude that the result is insufficient still, and motivate why. Then, and only then, the road was clear for measures to be taken.

That doesn't mean the fraudulent licenses weren't on their radar, it may well have been impossible to collect sufficient evidence until the helpful minister's on-the-record admission fixed that problem for them. After all, EASA cannot simply conduct an investigation in pakistan: months before they even walk through the front door the entire building already knows about their upcoming visit, not to mention their lack of legal authority in the country. Meanwhile, the pakistani authorities that should be investigating are either in on the scheme or too afraid to act.