PIA Lahore to Karachi Airbus A320 Flight Crashes

[Zulfiqar]

^^ misreading glide slope- could have happened, however they were told, were ‘comfortable’ and opted not to act on advice from ATC to turn around. The whole journey has to be analysed to see why they did not descend earlier.

[Abbas Ali]

PIA Airbus A320 AP-BLD FDR & CVR data downloaded successfully by BEA. Analysis of data in progress and will continue this week.



Abbas

[Abbas Ali]

Pakistan CAA has written a letter to PIA on the subject of "non-compliance of air traffic control (ATC) instructions by pilot in command (PIC) of PIA flight PK8303".

Violation

Non-compliance of ATC Instructions by PIC PIA8303

Duty approach controller raised a non-compliance report in respect of captain of PIA flight PK8303 on 22nd May, 2020. PIA flight PK8303 Airbus A320 (aircraft registration AP-BLD) from Lahore to Karachi was cleared to altitude 3000 feet while entering control zone (25 nautical miles) but observed high on approach at MAKLI, the same was communicated to the pilot who reported comfortable for descent. Later at 10 nautical miles pilot was again cautioned by offering an orbit to adjust his high altitude for approach which he did not accept by saying comfortable with descent.

Approach controller further added that:

"When aircraft was 7 nautical miles final from touchdown Runway 25L, passing 5200 feet, it was relatively high as per the standard approach profile. I instructed pilot twice to discontinue approach and turn left heading 180 which he did not comply and continued to proceed towards Runway 25L with his own discretion to establish Instrument Landing System (ILS) approach Runway 25L. I again warned aircraft at 5 nautical miles from touchdown which was passing 3500 feet. At 4 nautical miles, aircraft was observed approaching 1300 feet with ground speed of 250 knots. Aircraft was observed passing runway threshold at ground speed of 210 knots."

Later, PK8303 lifted up from surface of the runway and crashed over Model Colony while attempting second approach for Runway 25L.

For information and further necessary actions to ensure avoidance of re-occurrence of such situations in the interest of flight safety.



Abbas

[Abdulrafeysiddiqui]

I'm wondering like what made pilot over comms think they were satisfied with that much altitude at first attempt . What made the pilot in command think they're gonna land safely(even not knowing that landing gears were not down) by loosing ~3000 feet in just few Nautical Miles and maintaining the required landing speed. God knows better!

[TAILWIND]

It is still a mystery why the pilots came in so high and without any apparent reason. I am not sure it has been discussed here but is it possible that they got a "false" glideslope? This can happen due to reflection though Pilots are trained on this. It can happen if you try to intercept the glideslope above 5000ft. This can explain the initial behavior. After that, the hurried landing would have kept them pretty occupied to miss the landing gear (or it did not deploy due to the speed). Similarly, the alarms would have been misinterpreted to a fast approach or rapid descend or something else the pilot thought they could "handle".

If we consider 3500 ft @ 5 DME call by ATC as reference , by using simple trigonometry this gives a glide slope angle of 6.6 degrees (Fig 1). Hence it is likely that they were on the ghost GS. Remember twice they called "established glide slope 25 left" instead of saying established localiser, implying they though or were having both LOC and GS captured.

Going further, using raw data from FR24. I have also plotted the graph of descent profile of last 10000 feet (available on FR24 website) I noticed that from 7500 feet till 3500 feet, the aircraft descended with almost constant ROD of over 4000 feet per min till 3500/5 point and were alterted by the crew(fig 2).

Hence it is possible that they were on the ghost glide slope. One thing though is to be remembered that for 6 degree false GS, the polarity of lobes reverses given opposite correction in the cockpit instrumentation. For 9 degrees signal, the polarity is same as that of 3 deg signal, but it is very easily discernible due to very high angle of approach.
Please note that this is just an academic/theoretical analysis, and we do not have full picture of the events taking place in the cockpit. Hopefully BOI would be able to comprehensively analyse all factors and come out with a good report.
In the meanwhile, we pray for the victims and sympathies to the near and dear ones.

[TAILWIND]

Pakistan CAA has written a letter to PIA on the subject of "non-compliance of air traffic control (ATC) instructions by pilot in command (PIC) of PIA flight PK8303".

Abbas

Is it appropriate for CAA to initiate such correspondence while the inquiry is still on?

[umar744]

my friend captain told me that how how how how did Late Capt Sajjad Gul flew 6 six times from Karachi to Lahore to Karachi on 16th 17th, 18th, 19th, 20th, 21st May everyday he was good well done took off & landed BUT How how how did Capt Omar Malik flew PK8232 AP-BLD from Multan to Muscat to Lahore on Thursday 21st May 2020. Maybe perhaps any technical issues on AP-BLD? AP-BLB, AP-BLC, AP-BLD different from other AP-BLA to BLZ? unknown happened. Maybe perhaps PIA forced Capt Sajjad Gul fly everyday when other pilot unavailable due to COVID19? Have PIA ask Capt Omar Malik for any technical issues on AP-BLD on 21st May 2020? everyone do NOT understand why AP-BLD something wrong to crash?

[fawad]

my friend captain told me that how how how how did Late Capt Sajjad Gul flew 6 six times from Karachi to Lahore to Karachi on 16th 17th, 18th, 19th, 20th, 21st May everyday he was good well done took off & landed BUT How how how did Capt Omar Malik flew PK8232 AP-BLD from Multan to Muscat to Lahore on Thursday 21st May 2020. Maybe perhaps any technical issues on AP-BLD? AP-BLB, AP-BLC, AP-BLD different from other AP-BLA to BLZ? unknown happened. Maybe perhaps PIA forced Capt Sajjad Gul fly everyday when other pilot unavailable due to COVID19? Have PIA ask Capt Omar Malik for any technical issues on AP-BLD on 21st May 2020? everyone do NOT understand why AP-BLD something wrong to crash?

The question still remains...if there were problems or technical issues, why did the pilot not tell the ATC? Why did they decide to come in high and fast?
Unless ATC is completely lying and CVR shows a completely different narration, even a technical issue does not explain this bizarre behavior. Then again, there were no issues in AirBlue and Bhoja or that PK flight to Kathmandu in the 90s. Why would AirBlue pilot tell ATC he could see the runway when clearly he couldn't and was way off? Why did he decide to follow a non-standard procedure in such weather with low cloud cover? His CVR showed he was utterly confused but still reluctant for a go-around.

Is there a heavy penalty or peer shaming associated with such?

[Abbas Ali]

Investigators also checking record of PK8303 cockpit crew communication with Lahore air traffic control.

Record of past month's air traffic controller's roster at Karachi being checked.

Investigators also checking whether emergency services were alerted at Karachi Airport when the aircraft touched runway surface with retracted landing gear.

Meanwhile the aircraft's engine and wing/landing gear are still present on roofs of two different houses. Authorities have not been able to remove them, so far.

Abbas

[fawad]

While they are checking previous communications, logs, flights, I hope they also take this opportunity to scrutinize PIA employees, particularly those in crucial positions in greater detail. Same for CAA too.

A short summary of PIA (off my head)

• same PIA where many pilots were found with bogus/fake licenses and/or degrees.

• Five of them didn't even pass high school. Some were barely 3rd division holders but had the "right connections".

• Its the same airline where PALPA mafia came to the rescue of its pilots and avoided further scrutiny and took a "non-cooperative" policy with the govt. for checking pilots' credentials (I don't call them mafia for nothing).

• The same airline where Faisal Younis was inducted as pilot, given USD 35,000 training even though he did not clear Intermediate exam (had one paper failed), brought some commerce diploma and was "selected on merit".... why? because he is the brother of Waqar Younis (cricketer).

• The same airline where politicians are given favors (by holding flights),

• same airline where crew has been caught bringing in people with immigration,

• same airline where air hostesses have disappeared and sought immigration/asylum,

• same airline where crew members have been caught smuggling multiple times,

• same airline whose management are generous as to give away plenty of free tickets,

• same airline whose crew(along with models) were responsible for money laundering.

Has there ever been an investigation as to who hired these people? Was a matric fail and inter fail the best available on merit? What is the criteria of hiring crew members? I am sure when you go looking behind the scene (technicians), I wouldn't be surprised to find people who learned from "ustaad" rather than any formal training. And I am sure CAA won't disappoint either.

[Abbas Ali]

Dead body of another flight attendant arrived in Lahore today.



Funeral prayers.



Abbas

[Abbas Ali]

Family of twelve-year old girl who succumbed to burn injuries to receive compensation of PKR 1,000,000/-

Two others undergoing medical treatment for burn injuries each to receive compensation of PKR 500,000/-

All three were domestic workers and were in the street where the aircraft crashed and caught fire.

Abbas

[awasi]

Pakistan CAA has written a letter to PIA on the subject of "non-compliance of air traffic control (ATC) instructions by pilot in command (PIC) of PIA flight PK8303".

Violation

Non-compliance of ATC Instructions by PIC PIA8303

Duty approach controller raised a non-compliance report in respect of captain of PIA flight PK8303 on 22nd May, 2020. PIA flight PK8303 Airbus A320 (aircraft registration AP-BLD) from Lahore to Karachi was cleared to altitude 3000 feet while entering control zone (25 nautical miles) but observed high on approach at MAKLI, the same was communicated to the pilot who reported comfortable for descent. Later at 10 nautical miles pilot was again cautioned by offering an orbit to adjust his high altitude for approach which he did not accept by saying comfortable with descent.

Approach controller further added that:

"When aircraft was 7 nautical miles final from touchdown Runway 25L, passing 5200 feet, it was relatively high as per the standard approach profile. I instructed pilot twice to discontinue approach and turn left heading 180 which he did not comply and continued to proceed towards Runway 25L with his own discretion to establish Instrument Landing System (ILS) approach Runway 25L. I again warned aircraft at 5 nautical miles from touchdown which was passing 3500 feet. At 4 nautical miles, aircraft was observed approaching 1300 feet with ground speed of 250 knots. Aircraft was observed passing runway threshold at ground speed of 210 knots."

Later, PK8303 lifted up from surface of the runway and crashed over Model Colony while attempting second approach for Runway 25L.

For information and further necessary actions to ensure avoidance of re-occurrence of such situations in the interest of flight safety.



Abbas

I don't get it. The ATC conversation is out there for everyone to listen to. As far as I recall the ATC gave the all clear to land to the Pilot. If ATC did not agree then they should not have given the clearance to land to the Pilot and the Pilot would be force to make amends.

[A310]

Pakistan CAA has written a letter to PIA on the subject of "non-compliance of air traffic control (ATC) instructions by pilot in command (PIC) of PIA flight PK8303".

Violation

Non-compliance of ATC Instructions by PIC PIA8303

Duty approach controller raised a non-compliance report in respect of captain of PIA flight PK8303 on 22nd May, 2020. PIA flight PK8303 Airbus A320 (aircraft registration AP-BLD) from Lahore to Karachi was cleared to altitude 3000 feet while entering control zone (25 nautical miles) but observed high on approach at MAKLI, the same was communicated to the pilot who reported comfortable for descent. Later at 10 nautical miles pilot was again cautioned by offering an orbit to adjust his high altitude for approach which he did not accept by saying comfortable with descent.

Approach controller further added that:

"When aircraft was 7 nautical miles final from touchdown Runway 25L, passing 5200 feet, it was relatively high as per the standard approach profile. I instructed pilot twice to discontinue approach and turn left heading 180 which he did not comply and continued to proceed towards Runway 25L with his own discretion to establish Instrument Landing System (ILS) approach Runway 25L. I again warned aircraft at 5 nautical miles from touchdown which was passing 3500 feet. At 4 nautical miles, aircraft was observed approaching 1300 feet with ground speed of 250 knots. Aircraft was observed passing runway threshold at ground speed of 210 knots."

Later, PK8303 lifted up from surface of the runway and crashed over Model Colony while attempting second approach for Runway 25L.

For information and further necessary actions to ensure avoidance of re-occurrence of such situations in the interest of flight safety.



Abbas

I don't get it. The ATC conversation is out there for everyone to listen to. As far as I recall the ATC gave the all clear to land to the Pilot. If ATC did not agree then they should not have given the clearance to land to the Pilot and the Pilot would be force to make amends.

I agree with you. While the ATC doesn’t really have any substantial role in the crash, their negligence and such a stupid notice should be accounted for. If this notice is to be believed, then the controller should also be questioned for giving landing clearance. Its been drafted as if the pilots proceeded to land without getting approach/landing clearance. I feel like all this drama is just to save the controller because he didn’t give the gear check warning or perhaps because he didn’t pass on the runway contact observation to the crew. As a separate matter the controllers should be given more training and also the authority to not clear hot and high aircraft for approach/landing.


PIA management also needs to be questioned. Its almost been a year since they started postings of pilots to ISB/LHE from KHI. However, only once were 3 A320 Captains posted to LHE. The practice was discontinued for LHE while it continued for ISB. WHY??? Why did PK 8303 originate from LHE? For more than 2 decades all flights from KHI to ISB/LHE/PEW originated from Karachi. Why the sudden change? Why put more burden on Lahore crew when there is already a shortage? Its funny how they reverted the origin back to KHI right after the crash. Lahore crew already had the load of Multan and Faisalabad flights. Lahore base only had 7 operational 320 captains available for May while Karachi base had almost 40 operational Captains. Why weren’t they assigned these flights when KHI crew had little to no load. Why was Capt. Sajjad assigned this flight for 6 consecutive days? Why has the practice of management harassing pilots into operating flights on short notices not stopped? Why the hell does crew scheduling assign crew to flight only one day before departure? This adhocism needs to stop. Workload needs to be distributed evenly? Why aren’t more pilots hired? Because the CEO wanted to create artificial shortage to accommodate fired Shaheen 320 Captains? Why does engineering ask the crew to take the aircraft on MEL? Why isn’t the problem rectified? To avoid delays they’ll be held accountable for? Increasing retirement age is also not on their agenda because contractual job is literally slavery and they harass these pilots by threatening them to operate a flight or else their contract will be terminated. One 777 Captain has already been fired for refusing to operate a flight on insufficient rest. All these things take a mental toll. They’re humans not machines. Everyone should be put to task. It’s now or never. Structural changes are required else next time it’ll be a 777 with 400 pax God forbid.

[fawad]

I think he pretty much got it right.