PIA Lahore to Karachi Airbus A320 Flight Crashes

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murtaza12
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Re: PIA Lahore to Karachi Airbus A320 Flight Crashes

Post by murtaza12 »

Hassan777 wrote: Thu May 28, 2020 7:40 am Reports of PIA safety director promptly running to the crash site alone on the day of the crash, who is allegedly a pilot and an active member of PALPA, could he have taken the CVR? Like is this possible don’t we have SOPs for accidents? Wasn’t the area sealed by rangers?
I was thinking the same. I find it very hard to believe that the CVR has not been found yet.

Looks like PIA + CAA trying their best to cover up the truth.
oozeman64
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Re: PIA Lahore to Karachi Airbus A320 Flight Crashes

Post by oozeman64 »

The CVRs gone.
If we're lucky and it does resurface, it won't be from the crashsite. There is no way it's not been recovered yet.

Edit: welp, seems i was wrong
Last edited by oozeman64 on Thu May 28, 2020 2:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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umar744
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Re: PIA Lahore to Karachi Airbus A320 Flight Crashes

Post by umar744 »

yes or no is TAIL / Rubber burn out? how did they found FDR ? yes or no do you know FDR next CVR inside TAIL? maybe perhaps CVR burn out from TAIL / rubber? where did they found FDR from? roof or house or ground floor or road? if they try to come back to look where CVR when they found FDR where from?

Late Capt Sajjad Gul flew F/O F27, 733, A310, 777 then upgraded Captain FC on ATR then A320. I guess his age is between 55 and 59 years old. His house in DHA, Lahore Cantt, Lahore near my parent's home. He was good kind nice friend person.

Unfortunately I cannot find photo of Capt Sajjad Gul because I have been already gave picture photo to Abbas Ali, History of PIA and he must find & have it to post this site.
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umar744
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Re: PIA Lahore to Karachi Airbus A320 Flight Crashes

Post by umar744 »

Airbus learn bad experience A320 crash accident many times and I hope Airbus install CCTV landing gear and nose wheels for safety and health in future but A340-500/600 and A380 and A350 and 773 have CCTV landing gear & nose wheel excellent but I wish all aircrafts.
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Hassan777
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Re: PIA Lahore to Karachi Airbus A320 Flight Crashes

Post by Hassan777 »

umar744 wrote: Thu May 28, 2020 8:54 am Airbus learn bad experience A320 crash accident many times and I hope Airbus install CCTV landing gear and nose wheels for safety and health in future but A340-500/600 and A380 and A350 and 773 have CCTV landing gear & nose wheel excellent but I wish all aircrafts.
Don’t know about this but Airbus surely should change the engine gear box’s location to a less critical place.
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Abbas Ali
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Re: PIA Lahore to Karachi Airbus A320 Flight Crashes

Post by Abbas Ali »

Cockpit Voice Recorder (CVR) of crashed PIA Airbus A320 (AP-BLD) found today.

The CVR was found under wreckage/rubble at the crash site when wreckage pieces were being removed from the crash site.

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Hassan777
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Re: PIA Lahore to Karachi Airbus A320 Flight Crashes

Post by Hassan777 »

Abbas Ali wrote: Thu May 28, 2020 9:03 am Cockpit Voice Recorder (CVR) of crashed PIA Airbus A320 (AP-BLD) found today.

The CVR was found under wreckage/rubble at the crash site when wreckage pieces were being removed from the crash site.

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Abbas
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Abbas Ali
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Re: PIA Lahore to Karachi Airbus A320 Flight Crashes

Post by Abbas Ali »

Recovered FDR and CVR will go to France for repair and data download.



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Abbas Ali
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Re: PIA Lahore to Karachi Airbus A320 Flight Crashes

Post by Abbas Ali »

Today, Prime Minister Imran Khan received briefing on PK8303 crash.

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He directed transparent and impartial investigation of the crash which is a national tragedy.

He directed authorities to release findings of crash investigation to public.

He also directed authorities to release findings of aircraft accidents that happened in the past to public.

He also directed authorities to arrange compensation for properties including houses, vehicles damaged in the crash.

The meeting was attended by Aviation Minister Ghulam Sarwar Khan and CEO PIA Air Marshal Arshad Malik.

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Hassan777
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Re: PIA Lahore to Karachi Airbus A320 Flight Crashes

Post by Hassan777 »

Hopefully now the PK-661 investigation gets public.
nopy99
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Re: PIA Lahore to Karachi Airbus A320 Flight Crashes

Post by nopy99 »

All factors of an incident should be investigated. One item which i would be interested in is for the investigation to look into the impact that the Tyvek body suits may have on cabin crew during an incident. PIA crew have to wear these suits on flights due to COVID.

Many airlines are equipping with their cabin crew with protective overalls for COVID infection risk mitigation and reduction, but what is the risk that the Tyvek suit could adversely impair cabin crew during a fire or incident.

Fire risk:-
The Dupont produced suits are not all rated as fire resistant. which brand are PIAC using and could the suit catch fire and cause worse injury or smoke inhalation/incapacitation?

Mobility issues:-
I haven't worn one of these in a long time, but i remember that they do restrict your movements. Also could they get caught on sharp objects and stop expedited movements in the case of an evacuation.

While not a primary focus, I really hope this is considered as a branch of investigation by the board as it could show thought leadership by the PCAA as the real world effects of an incident on these suits can be studied.

i found this lab test report by the UK Health and Safety Executive (dated 2007). This study could be expanded now with real life evidence.

https://www.hse.gov.uk/research/hsl_pdf ... sl0725.pdf
awasi
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Re: PIA Lahore to Karachi Airbus A320 Flight Crashes

Post by awasi »

Well looks like the engine were not at 100% either As per PIA Notification
On PIA A320 Fleet AP-BLA, BLD and BLU are required to have FLEX takeoff thrust as it is the desired requirement to enhance engine life on these aircrafts. To ensure this flex takeoff on these aircrafts, following procedure is to be used:

Dispatcher will derive Performance regulated takeoff gross weight and subtract 1500 kg from this weight. This derived weight will be the box A limit for the relevant flight. This will ensure that Flex takeoff will always be used on these aircrafts.

Crew are requested to use FLEX thrust on these aircrafts. Full thrust can be used incase it is required due to any outside conditions e.g. wind shear or significant weather. All other aircrafts in A320 fleet do not have the above mentioned restriction.
nopy99
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Re: PIA Lahore to Karachi Airbus A320 Flight Crashes

Post by nopy99 »

Special Interview Crew Member Abdul Qayyum Ashraf (shaheed) Son & Brother

awasi
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Re: PIA Lahore to Karachi Airbus A320 Flight Crashes

Post by awasi »

oozeman64 wrote: Wed May 27, 2020 7:35 pm
fawad wrote: Wed May 27, 2020 7:22 pm People are saying that a narrative is being built against the pilots...sure there will be. Who was flying the plane? ATC controllers/Director flight safety/CEO of PIA or was it the pilots?

Any of those may get secondary blame for making things more efficient. Even if it was pilot incompetence, then it is the responsibility of management that they shouldn't hire incompetent people but then again...almost all of PIA appointees are political. We, as a nation, get self-satisfaction if a senior person is blamed or fired because we think they earn too much. But I don't know how blaming a CEO would have prevented this? Or if changing a CEO will change anything? CEO has limited powers here since all of PIAs overstaffed, lazy, and incompetent employees are politically appointed to which the CEO can do nothing. MNAs and courts always intervene to give incompetent people even more benefits than they were getting before along with arrears.

Suppose it was a maintenance error, wouldn't the question still arise as to why they did not declare it to ATC and go for emergency landing? Who is to blame for pilots agreeing to land from such altitude in such a short time and say "I am comfortable"? CEO of PIA? Who was supposed to mention landing gear problems (if there were any)...Dir flight safety? As far as Sindh govt. object, they will object to any and everything not handled by Zardari or his thugs. They will insist to include a representative of PALPA mafia who will say hire even more Sindhi people, increase pay and perks, for a lower amount of work and distribute plots amongst all pilots, and ask CEO to be in the cockpit to handle cases we are incompetent to handle.

My rant would sound harsh and it is based on history, not necessarily these pilots. I will give them the benefit of doubt until a more complete picture arises. They do appear to be prime 'suspects' though not culprits at this stage. It happens everywhere and it is due to data available so far. I do not recall anyone jumping to blame pilots in ATR (JJ plane) case or Fokker (Multan) case because the immediate data showed problems in the plane. Maintenance was blamed, and by transitivity, PIA management if they are pressuring people to cut corners. The same goes internationally too. Boeing 737max was grounded pending final investigation due to leaked data even before guilt was formally established.
You make a fair point, and i agree with you to some extent. Yes, if the narrative being speculated about the landing gear not being extended at all or retracted too early by pilots is true, then yes, pilots are to blame.

However, we dont know if its true yet. We dont know what really went on inside the cockpit, there are too many possibilities at the moment for us to choose one and start concluding opinions or speculations as facts on mainstream media.
First and foremost the pilots are employees of the Airline, so blaming the pilots and not the Airline absolutely doesn't make sense. Its the airline that hire these pilots, its the CAA that issues the flying licenses. Its the Airline that implements various policies including CRM (Crew/Cockpit Resource Management). PIA has had a series of incidents before the latest crash, what changes has the Airline initiated to address them ? Why do we continue to see these tragic accidents if steps are taken ?

Secondly the ATC cannot be absolve of their negligence. In the US the ATC is very authoritative i.e. you deviate from their instructions they will come down hard on you. The ATC guides and sets not only the altitude in the air but also ground speed when they deem necessary.

We can blame the pilots that are dead all day long, but unfortunately that is not going to solve the long term problem that is everywhere in Pakistan, in the air and on the ground.
arshad.altaf
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Re: PIA Lahore to Karachi Airbus A320 Flight Crashes

Post by arshad.altaf »

(Karachi) Aviation Minister Ghulam Sarwar has said that the initial inquiry report in plane crash incident will be made public by June 22.

Addressing a press briefing on plane crash incident in Islamabad on Thursday, he said that the plane crash was a tragic incident in the country's aviation history. The government will provide Rs1 million each to the families of the victims while it will also provide funds for reconstruction of the damaged houses, he said.

He added that 51 bodies of plane crash victims have been identified through DNA and handed over to their heirs. He mentioned that 12 plane crash incidents have occurred since independence in the country.

“The prime minister has directed to make all the reports of crash incidents public and take action against those found responsible," the minister pointed out. He said that leniency will not be shown to those found responsible and negligent in the crash incident.

Ghulam Sarwar stated that 11-member team of Airbus from France is carrying out investigation while a senior member of Pakistan Air Force is heading probe into the tragic crash. “The French team will take the evidence and decode it which will reveal the facts and exact cause of the plane crash."

The federal minister said that the investigation board has the authority to include anyone in the inquiry.

He said that the aircraft crashed during landing in which 97 people lost their lives while two survived miraculously.

To a question, he said that Sindh government has made it a habit to politicize matters. “The report of the crash incidents that occurred during the tenure of PPP government have not been made public till date," Sarwar said.

https://www.brecorder.com/2020/05/28/60 ... rs-sarwar/