PIA Lahore to Karachi Airbus A320 Flight Crashes

Discuss issues and news related to PIA, Pakistani airlines and Pakistan's civil & military aviation.


Ansari99
Registered Member
Posts: 7
Joined: Sun May 10, 2020 10:34 pm

Re: PIA Lahore to Karachi Airbus A320 Flight Crashes

Post by Ansari99 »

oozeman64 wrote:
Sat May 23, 2020 11:06 pm
Ansari99 wrote:
Sat May 23, 2020 10:52 pm
I don’t think we should we pointing fingers at the crew already, there is only circumstantial evidence and the crew were evidently trying to execute a low fly pass, so that ATC could asses the situation. Therefore something occurred which potentially lead to the engine hitting the runway. Both engines hitting at different points on the runway proves that the pilot wasn’t trying to land but was trying to control the plane for a safe fly by. And the pilots must have been pre occupied with something Which lead to them being to high. Possibly the landing gear, we cannot blame the pilots for being to high as go around are regular. This matter needs to investigated throughly but it’s to early for us to blame the crew, considering they gave it their best and could not make it
If they were attempting a low pass, why were they cleared to land? I believe it was an actual attempted landing.

I feel like there is something missing from ATC. It doesn’t add up with what witness are saying. If they were executing a belly landing where were the emergency services?


oozeman64
Registered Member
Posts: 57
Joined: Fri Apr 17, 2020 11:58 am

Re: PIA Lahore to Karachi Airbus A320 Flight Crashes

Post by oozeman64 »

PK8303 descended at a rate of 4500 rpm during the attempted landing in which it touched down with its engines.This rate of descent undoubtedly increased their airspeed to way above their approach speed.
// The air is far safer than the ground //

Ansari99
Registered Member
Posts: 7
Joined: Sun May 10, 2020 10:34 pm

Re: PIA Lahore to Karachi Airbus A320 Flight Crashes

Post by Ansari99 »

The pilots did not confirm for a belly landing, it’s possible the pilots cane low to try decrease there speed and climb again. Also the impact on the engine is somewhat light which further reinforces the fact that pilot was not executing a belly landing as if he was the impact on the engine would have been much worse. The pilots probably just kissed the runway. And there are also no picture evidence of runway marks?

rvlhassan
Registered Member
Posts: 40
Joined: Fri May 22, 2020 3:57 pm

Re: PIA Lahore to Karachi Airbus A320 Flight Crashes

Post by rvlhassan »

I think there are 2 possiblities;

Hydraulics failiure as seen in two pia A320s before
Or foregtting to deploy gear as in 86 incident
both being absolutely scary

oozeman64
Registered Member
Posts: 57
Joined: Fri Apr 17, 2020 11:58 am

Re: PIA Lahore to Karachi Airbus A320 Flight Crashes

Post by oozeman64 »

Ansari99 wrote:
Sat May 23, 2020 11:09 pm
oozeman64 wrote:
Sat May 23, 2020 11:06 pm
Ansari99 wrote:
Sat May 23, 2020 10:52 pm
I don’t think we should we pointing fingers at the crew already, there is only circumstantial evidence and the crew were evidently trying to execute a low fly pass, so that ATC could asses the situation. Therefore something occurred which potentially lead to the engine hitting the runway. Both engines hitting at different points on the runway proves that the pilot wasn’t trying to land but was trying to control the plane for a safe fly by. And the pilots must have been pre occupied with something Which lead to them being to high. Possibly the landing gear, we cannot blame the pilots for being to high as go around are regular. This matter needs to investigated throughly but it’s to early for us to blame the crew, considering they gave it their best and could not make it
If they were attempting a low pass, why were they cleared to land? I believe it was an actual attempted landing.

I feel like there is something missing from ATC. It doesn’t add up with what witness are saying. If they were executing a belly landing where were the emergency services?
It feels as if they weren't trying to execute a belly landing. if they were, then there would have been fire and health crew summoned, and foam fire retardant foam would've been poured onto the runway. So far, (not confirmed), it is as if the belly touching down was completely unintentional, and that they were simply attempting a normal landing.
// The air is far safer than the ground //

Ansari99
Registered Member
Posts: 7
Joined: Sun May 10, 2020 10:34 pm

Re: PIA Lahore to Karachi Airbus A320 Flight Crashes

Post by Ansari99 »

Yes that is possible, it’s almost as if they weren’t aware that there was no landing gear?

wajidiqbal84
Registered Member
Posts: 119
Joined: Sat Jan 14, 2012 2:32 pm
Location: UK

Re: PIA Lahore to Karachi Airbus A320 Flight Crashes

Post by wajidiqbal84 »

Does anybody else notice a degree of tension between the ATC and flight deck? In Lahore it's almost as if the pilot was afraid of offending ATC when he asked a question.

In Karachi I sensed a hint of sarcasm and dismissiveness in the phrase 'We ARE established...'

It's almost as if there was a barrier to open communication.

rvlhassan
Registered Member
Posts: 40
Joined: Fri May 22, 2020 3:57 pm

Re: PIA Lahore to Karachi Airbus A320 Flight Crashes

Post by rvlhassan »

Pakistani pilots also have a problem of big ego. Once I was in the cockpit when I was 9 about 7 years ago - Pilot asked me do you want to ask any questions? Me being a shy boy I said no and left the cockpit. As the cockpit door closed I heard one of the cockpit crew say " Yeh b*henc*od economy wala bacha kider seh ay?" However I was in business. Pakistani pilots in my experience don't fair well with being challenged

Shershah Ahmed
Registered Member
Posts: 8
Joined: Wed Nov 07, 2018 1:22 pm

Re: PIA Lahore to Karachi Airbus A320 Flight Crashes

Post by Shershah Ahmed »

SM wrote:
Sat May 23, 2020 9:40 pm
Abbas Ali wrote:
Sat May 23, 2020 9:37 pm
Dead bodies of Capt. Sajjad Gul and Purser Fareed Ahmed have arrived in Lahore on a PIA flight from Karachi.

Probably PIA Airbus A320 (registration AP-BLU) that arrived in Lahore at 8:07 PM as flight PK8304 from Karachi.

Image
Source: flightradar24.com

Abbas
Sajjad Gul's and his F/O's bodies should be sent for toxicology analysis and findings should be made public ASAP.

His and his F/O's behavior yesterday were nothing short of being under the influence while on the controls of a $50 million jet with 100 precious lives.
Show a little respect. Your cavalier attitude towards the dead in order to prove your theory (and it IS a theory until the investigation shows otherwise) is highly unbecoming. Debate, discourse and freedom of speech are all well and good, but you seem to have it out for PIA's cockpit crew as evidenced by your past comments. I seem to recall in your effort to prove yourself right you accused the ATR crew of performing the Gilgit landing at +/-300+kts as per your 'calculations' which another form goer proved wrong.

If you are so quick to blame the pilots for what may or may not have happened, why dont you first ask why the gears did not come down on the first attempt? Maybe point the same finger at management and engineering as you do crew. Perhaps the landing gear indicator was faulty, and showed 3 greens but they weren't down. Perhaps they weren't locked. Perhaps they forgot to put the gears down, in which case was Karachi tower sleeping instead of looking at their descent and not informing them about their lack of gears down? We don't know yet, and for all your words, neither do you.
Last edited by Shershah Ahmed on Sun May 24, 2020 12:34 am, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Abbas Ali
Site Admin
Posts: 39721
Joined: Thu Aug 05, 2004 11:52 pm
Location: Pakistan

Re: PIA Lahore to Karachi Airbus A320 Flight Crashes

Post by Abbas Ali »



Dil Dil Pakistan... Jaan Jaan Pakistan

See you at:
Image

A310
Registered Member
Posts: 389
Joined: Sun Oct 16, 2011 8:03 am

Re: PIA Lahore to Karachi Airbus A320 Flight Crashes

Post by A310 »

SM wrote:
Sat May 23, 2020 9:40 pm
Abbas Ali wrote:
Sat May 23, 2020 9:37 pm
Dead bodies of Capt. Sajjad Gul and Purser Fareed Ahmed have arrived in Lahore on a PIA flight from Karachi.

Probably PIA Airbus A320 (registration AP-BLU) that arrived in Lahore at 8:07 PM as flight PK8304 from Karachi.

Image
Source: flightradar24.com

Abbas
Sajjad Gul's and his F/O's bodies should be sent for toxicology analysis and findings should be made public ASAP.

His and his F/O's behavior yesterday were nothing short of being under the influence while on the controls of a $50 million jet with 100 precious lives.

I shall try to remain as respectful as I can although you’re not worthy of that. And I really hope Abbas doesn’t hop in to delete my post. If such insensitive remarks by SM stay on the thread, then so should my response no matter how disrespectful it gets.

First of all, referring to the deceased Capt just by his name speaks volumes about your mentality. Just like the mentality of the boot running this airline, you are hell bent on blaming this tragedy on the pilots. What particular ‘behavior’ of the pilots are you referring to? Judging them by how they sounded in the communication with the atc? All you know till now is what everyone has been shown on the media. I don’t know who you are and how into the aviation sector you are. You might be a retired pilot or something. But you just sound like a frustrated and cranky retired individual who knows nothing much is left in life so you just wish the same for others. I just wish you were brought up in a better way. But again not everyone is that lucky. For someone who knew both the pilots, I can bet on my life that they couldn’t be under influence. When you could’ve appreciated them for remaining calm and composed, you chose to be as insensitive as you could. I’m sure all tests must have been run on the bodies before releasing them to the families. Imagine if someone from their family read your comment. Put yourself in their shoes. How would it make you feel? I really hope it doesn’t every happen to you or anyone else but I’d love for someone to step on your nerve and hurt your sentiments in a completely different scenario. Every assertion published up till now is just a theory so don’t make it a basis to spew your baseless allegations. If you’d like to debate about it, contact me for a one on one correspondence and I’ll shut you up. But till then don’t let your prejudice come out in the form of allegations against the pilot. If you don’t have anything nice to say, you can just keep your mouth closed.

A310
Registered Member
Posts: 389
Joined: Sun Oct 16, 2011 8:03 am

Re: PIA Lahore to Karachi Airbus A320 Flight Crashes

Post by A310 »

Just like a forum member has mentioned above, SM was the first one to make the deduction that Capt. of Gilgit bound ATR approached in at a speed of 300 kts. And that is where I shall rest my argument.
Last edited by Abbas Ali on Sun May 24, 2020 1:38 am, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Edited

daniyal 07
Registered Member
Posts: 17
Joined: Sun Jan 19, 2020 7:03 pm

Re: PIA Lahore to Karachi Airbus A320 Flight Crashes

Post by daniyal 07 »

SM wrote:
Sat May 23, 2020 9:40 pm
Abbas Ali wrote:
Sat May 23, 2020 9:37 pm
Dead bodies of Capt. Sajjad Gul and Purser Fareed Ahmed have arrived in Lahore on a PIA flight from Karachi.

Probably PIA Airbus A320 (registration AP-BLU) that arrived in Lahore at 8:07 PM as flight PK8304 from Karachi.

Image
Source: flightradar24.com

Abbas
Sajjad Gul's and his F/O's bodies should be sent for toxicology analysis and findings should be made public ASAP.

His and his F/O's behavior yesterday were nothing short of being under the influence while on the controls of a $50 million jet with 100 precious lives.

Lets also not ignore the state at which pia is keeping its planes, maybe the landing gear really failed to deploydue to poor condition of the aircraft.. still the question arises that if they were thinking if making a belly landing why did they lift the plane up again and on the second aproach the wheels are seen deployed so how did they open the second time while not in the first attempt maybe they forgot to open the landing gears as if it was a failure the wheels wouldnt have opened up in the second approach.

A310
Registered Member
Posts: 389
Joined: Sun Oct 16, 2011 8:03 am

Re: PIA Lahore to Karachi Airbus A320 Flight Crashes

Post by A310 »

daniyal 07 wrote:
Sun May 24, 2020 12:45 am
SM wrote:
Sat May 23, 2020 9:40 pm
Abbas Ali wrote:
Sat May 23, 2020 9:37 pm
Dead bodies of Capt. Sajjad Gul and Purser Fareed Ahmed have arrived in Lahore on a PIA flight from Karachi.

Probably PIA Airbus A320 (registration AP-BLU) that arrived in Lahore at 8:07 PM as flight PK8304 from Karachi.

Image
Source: flightradar24.com

Abbas
Sajjad Gul's and his F/O's bodies should be sent for toxicology analysis and findings should be made public ASAP.

His and his F/O's behavior yesterday were nothing short of being under the influence while on the controls of a $50 million jet with 100 precious lives.

Lets also not ignore the state at which pia is keeping its planes, maybe the landing gear really failed to deploydue to poor condition of the aircraft.. still the question arises that if they were thinking if making a belly landing why did they lift the plane up again and on the second aproach the wheels are seen deployed so how did they open the second time while not in the first attempt maybe they forgot to open the landing gears as if it was a failure the wheels wouldnt have opened up in the second approach.

There is no procedure in any commercial aircraft that requires pilots to go for a belly landing on the first attempt. If for some reason gears don’t deploy or if there’s any other emergency, it requires them to go around and try recycling and if for some reason it still doesn’t work they can make a low pass and ask the tower’s observation. Even after that things don’t work then they can also deploy the gears by gravity extension(look it up on google). Belly landing is only pursued as a last resort.

Don’t forget that the condition of PIA 320 landing gears isn’t up to the mark and maintenance level is also horrendous. And landing gears is where the problem started. There are precedents establishing this.

On 28th Feb this year, PK 204 DXB-LHE diverted to DXB right after take off because the landing gear doors didn’t close. On another occasion this year, landing gears didn’t retract after take off of PK 717 LYP-MED and the pilots decided to divert to KHI. Only after multiple attempts they were able to retract them. So maintenance is a big question here. All sane people know every accident is a result of a chain of events. We are all ready to blame the pilots for the ultimate result but aren’t ready to debate about the root cause.

SM
Registered Member
Posts: 253
Joined: Sun Oct 30, 2005 12:49 am

Re: PIA Lahore to Karachi Airbus A320 Flight Crashes

Post by SM »

A310 wrote:
Sun May 24, 2020 12:34 am
Just like a forum member has mentioned above, SM was the first one to make the deduction that Capt. of Gilgit bound ATR approached in at a speed of 300 kts. And that is where I shall rest my argument.
I was right about her then and I am right about this new crew now.

Had she been fired, this crew would have thought many times before committing to a steep dive to land on their first attempt.

They were too "comfortable" when warned by ATC to not resort to a 6.5 degree FPA.

Sorry everyone - but I can't mince my words when I know that shaming irresponsible attitude can and will save lives.
Last edited by Abbas Ali on Sun May 24, 2020 1:37 am, edited 2 times in total.
SM