PIA to Start Non-stop Flights for New York Soon - Aviation Minister

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Abbas Ali
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PIA to Start Non-stop Flights for New York Soon - Aviation Minister

Post by Abbas Ali »

On ARY News:

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PIA is soon going to start non-stop flights to New York, according to Aviation Minister Ghulam Sarwar Khan.

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Amaad Lone
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Re: PIA to Start Non-stop Flights for New York Soon - Aviation Minister

Post by Amaad Lone »

Does PIA have enough 777s to now start New York?? Only two LRs which are operating to Toronto also thrice a week or four times a week, are we going to again go back to twice a week flight to New York with keeping the crew their for three or four nights and than expect the airline to make money.

PIA needs to acquire more long haul aircraft so in case one plane is down then you do not disturb your schedule and i think any destination that cannot be served three times should not be served at all.

This might be a good time to bring in a new type of wide body to operate on the New York and Toronto routes, maybe three A350-900s to for North America and keep the 777s for UK, Europe and Saudi Arabia.
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Abdulrafeysiddiqui
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Re: PIA to Start Non-stop Flights for New York Soon - Aviation Minister

Post by Abdulrafeysiddiqui »

Agree with you but going for A350s won't be a good decision as PIA don't have any same type rated aircraft. More funds will be required for crew(Flight deck+Cabin) training. On the other hand, even if A320 pilots are promoted, funds will be required too. I think better option will be to acquire 787 as PIA already have many 777 crew.

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Re: PIA to Start Non-stop Flights for New York Soon - Aviation Minister

Post by Amaad Lone »

The 787 have horrible long haul reviews with its 3 3 3 layout as the aircraft was originally designed for a 2 4 2 layout.

While the A350 is a 3 3 3 design layout aircraft.

PIA must only relaunch New York if it has an excellent product no a poor effort to start twice a week 777LR flight with no IFE.

One must remember that New York will only be the first station and with a number of Pakistanis in the US stations like Washington DC, Houston, Chicago, Los Angeles, New Wark Boston and Atlanta can be next and a long haul plan should be made for flights into the US a plan covering 8 cities over five years.

The A350 is the natural choice. Whats wrong with training pilots on a new type PIA does it all the time as we speak PIA is training A320 crews for the 777 fleet.
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Re: PIA to Start Non-stop Flights for New York Soon - Aviation Minister

Post by GEnx »

Amaad Lone wrote:
Wed Jul 24, 2019 4:01 pm
The 787 have horrible long haul reviews with its 3 3 3 layout as the aircraft was originally designed for a 2 4 2 layout.

While the A350 is a 3 3 3 design layout aircraft.

PIA must only relaunch New York if it has an excellent product no a poor effort to start twice a week 777LR flight with no IFE.

One must remember that New York will only be the first station and with a number of Pakistanis in the US stations like Washington DC, Houston, Chicago, Los Angeles, New Wark Boston and Atlanta can be next and a long haul plan should be made for flights into the US a plan covering 8 cities over five years.

The A350 is the natural choice. Whats wrong with training pilots on a new type PIA does it all the time.
Well, the A330-800neo's 251-ton variant is the longest range aircraft in under 300 seat category. The range is 8150 nm. This can be a good replacement too. It can be used with better frequencies given its smaller size. Also, it is cheaper than B787 and will be available easily in 2020/21 timeframe. This will also enable PIA to acquire A330-900s in future to replace other B777s. They are cheaper than B787 and have a more comfortable 2 4 2 layout with Airbus' new Airspace Cabin.

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Re: PIA to Start Non-stop Flights for New York Soon - Aviation Minister

Post by fahadshakeel »

GEnx wrote:
Wed Jul 24, 2019 4:20 pm
Amaad Lone wrote:
Wed Jul 24, 2019 4:01 pm
The 787 have horrible long haul reviews with its 3 3 3 layout as the aircraft was originally designed for a 2 4 2 layout.

While the A350 is a 3 3 3 design layout aircraft.

PIA must only relaunch New York if it has an excellent product no a poor effort to start twice a week 777LR flight with no IFE.

One must remember that New York will only be the first station and with a number of Pakistanis in the US stations like Washington DC, Houston, Chicago, Los Angeles, New Wark Boston and Atlanta can be next and a long haul plan should be made for flights into the US a plan covering 8 cities over five years.

The A350 is the natural choice. Whats wrong with training pilots on a new type PIA does it all the time.
Well, the A330-800neo's 251-ton variant is the longest range aircraft in under 300 seat category. The range is 8150 nm. This can be a good replacement too. It can be used with better frequencies given its smaller size. Also, it is cheaper than B787 and will be available easily in 2020/21 timeframe. This will also enable PIA to acquire A330-900s in future to replace other B777s. They are cheaper than B787 and have a more comfortable 2 4 2 layout with Airbus' new Airspace Cabin.
If it says soon so probably they can't acquire any equipment sooner or later. The bi-literal ties with Qatar indicates that PIA will get a couple QR air crafts on wet lease just like they did for PIA Premier Service. What after six months? who has seen after six months.. lol
Qatar has already made this offer. A lot of their planes has been grounded since they are facing restrictions.

I have a question here: Why can't a 77W perform LHE-JFK sector since AI has deployed on BOM/DEL-JFK. EY performs AUH-LAX on 77W and many other airlines on more or less distance.

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Re: PIA to Start Non-stop Flights for New York Soon - Aviation Minister

Post by Tuti Fruiti »

There will always be some trade-off whether 777 787 350 or 330 is used.
The main point is whether PIA has resources to buy or even lease a wide body aircraft and start the NYC ,Chicago etc operations effectively.

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Re: PIA to Start Non-stop Flights for New York Soon - Aviation Minister

Post by baberblues »

I don't think there is any point, this will also bleed more money going to JFK. What PIA should do is code share extensively with carriers at Toronto, as they can continue to make a big buck.

ammad
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Re: PIA to Start Non-stop Flights for New York Soon - Aviation Minister

Post by ammad »

There is no plan to induct B787 or A350, so putting these aircraft on this route is out of question.

PIA could deploy 1 B-777 on JFK - ISB - JFK route thrice weekly.

This route will be loss making from day one.

However, some advantage are that,

If PIA is in JFK market, ME3 will be having some hard time to increase fares.
First time traveller, elders, and many of the families will found this pretty convenient.

However, still i don't see effectiveness of this route UNTIL it is daily from ISB and traffic feeded by LHE and KHI flights with convenient connections.
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Re: PIA to Start Non-stop Flights for New York Soon - Aviation Minister

Post by amjid84 »

baberblues wrote:
Wed Jul 24, 2019 10:38 pm
I don't think there is any point, this will also bleed more money going to JFK. What PIA should do is code share extensively with carriers at Toronto, as they can continue to make a big buck.
Agreed - they shouldn't bother with JFK. They need to be milking the code-share through Toronto. PK should be flying daily to YYZ (possibly 2x from LHE & KHI; and 3x ISB) with feeders from MUX; LYP; PEW & UET - then connect onwards with AC from YYZ. This makes more sense then going 1-2 week to JFK.

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Re: PIA to Start Non-stop Flights for New York Soon - Aviation Minister

Post by Amaad Lone »

The question is not what aircraft can fly for 14 hours to New York but what are we offering the 300 souls on board.

Can you sit in a plane for 14 hours staring at the ceiling.
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Re: PIA to Start Non-stop Flights for New York Soon - Aviation Minister

Post by Amaad Lone »

Well, the A330-800neo's 251-ton variant is the longest range aircraft in under 300 seat category. The range is 8150 nm. This can be a good replacement too. It can be used with better frequencies given its smaller size. Also, it is cheaper than B787 and will be available easily in 2020/21 timeframe. This will also enable PIA to acquire A330-900s in future to replace other B777s. They are cheaper than B787 and have a more comfortable 2 4 2 layout with Airbus' new Airspace Cabin.
A330-800 is a flop. Hardly any sales, so why buy an aircraft that is not really doing well. A330-900 is still a better option 295 seats in two class layout. But not for North America. Only option is 787-9 or A350-900. The fuel cost of A350-900 is 24% lower than the 777-200LR.
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Re: PIA to Start Non-stop Flights for New York Soon - Aviation Minister

Post by fahadshakeel »

Amaad Lone wrote:
Thu Jul 25, 2019 3:29 pm
Well, the A330-800neo's 251-ton variant is the longest range aircraft in under 300 seat category. The range is 8150 nm. This can be a good replacement too. It can be used with better frequencies given its smaller size. Also, it is cheaper than B787 and will be available easily in 2020/21 timeframe. This will also enable PIA to acquire A330-900s in future to replace other B777s. They are cheaper than B787 and have a more comfortable 2 4 2 layout with Airbus' new Airspace Cabin.
A330-800 is a flop. Hardly any sales, so why buy an aircraft that is not really doing well. A330-900 is still a better option 295 seats in two class layout. But not for North America. Only option is 787-9 or A350-900. The fuel cost of A350-900 is 24% lower than the 777-200LR.
Fuel cost can be good saving but on the other hand training & infrastructure cost will eat alot. Fuel isn't the only parameter to measure economics. If we make a math then a dreamliner is most effective since with minimum upgrade & crew training from b777 will enable the handling. In either case; PIA will endup in losses. It costs beyond $250K to AI with 777 from DEL to JFK so just imagin that would be beyond $200K from ISB to JFK using b777.

Pak-US doesn't have any strong business ties and business class pays you well, with economy they can't even collect half of the trip cost. Then this also depends about cargo load if they market the product well & keep cargo filled and restrict the luggage rules as well otherwise charge. Generally national carriers don't bother about minor losses on such routes but still it will not be minor loss unless they come up with strategy to improve transit traffic within PK and/or from eastern countries. It needs a massive marketing on multiple sale channels as well as codeshares too like Kuwait & Saudi Airlines did and still doing. Bear in mind; PIA will not serve any Liquor during 14hours flight so it's also another disadvantage in addition to IFE & Business Class problems.

I am still not much optimistic about PIA acquiring new planes. I am sure it will endup getting few planes from QR for other routes and/or PIA will configure it's 777s for JFK.

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Re: PIA to Start Non-stop Flights for New York Soon - Aviation Minister

Post by fahadshakeel »

By The Way; I HAVE A DREAM OF HAVING CHARDONNAY ON PIA WHILE LOOKING DOWN ATLANTIC OCEAN FROM THE WINDOW :)

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Re: PIA to Start Non-stop Flights for New York Soon - Aviation Minister

Post by uzkt01 »

I think the most cost effective option would be to replace bussiness class seats in 77Ls and 77Ws. They are already in process of replacing IFE screens in Eco on them. So they would be fine for North American routes. Meanwhile for EU and SEA lease some mid-life A330s and already in fleet 772s.
It would not be a bad decision if they re-configure 3 772 in high density all Eco configuration with 400+ seats for domestic and Jeddah flights.
Another solution is to raise capital by sale and lease back of owned 777s to a leasing company and order 787-9s or A330-900s via the same company. PIA 777s are getting old. At some point they might end up like other former owned aircraft rotting in KHI.