Four Hawker 850 Executive Jets for the Navy

[meekal ahmed]

I know this is a PIA Forum but others bring up PAF issues and we have many comments/pictures about Government Executive Jets, etc. so I suppose this topic is OK -- Abbas willing!

I was browsing an air magazine a few hours ago and came across a picture of a Hawker 850 mid-sized Executive Jet on its way to the formal delivery ceremony in Pakistan. Three more will follow, God be praised. Then they will be sent off somewhere to be fitted out in no doubt the most luxurious style imaginable.

I am sorry I have no pictures for you guys because I was so disgusted with the idea of importing (more) Executive Jets at a time when the country is engulfed in floods and terrorism, there are severe food shortages, inflation is soaring and the young and elderly will start dying in large numbers because of malnutrition, disease and starvation. I did not buy the magazine.

I thought I would share my angst (and anger) with all of you. May be some of you feel differently.

[Abbas Ali]

^ Perfectly alright to discuss Naval aviation, anything related to Pakistan's civil or military aviation can be discussed here.

Coming back to the topic subject, Meekal would it be possible for you to share name of the magazine and colour scheme of Pakistan Navy Hawker 850 ? and is it Hawker 850XP ?

Pakistan Navy, as far as I know, did not have jet executive transport aircraft in its inventory. Till recent times Pakistan Navy Fokker F-27 turboprop were used to transport Naval officers. Probably the F-27 used by Navy for transporting its officers will be retired after the induction of Hawker 850XP ?

Any information about the configuration of four Hawker 850XP being acquired by Pakistan Navy ? I think two Hawker 850XP as transport aircraft for Navy officers will be good enough.

The other two Hawker 850XP could very well be aircraft's military variant to be used for missions like reconnaissance, maritime search and rescue etc. ?

Hence it will be useful to know details about configuration of all these four aircraft acquired by Pakistan Navy. Order for these four aircraft apparently must have been placed well before floods that hit the country recently.

Abbas

[meekal ahmed]

Abbas,

I was so upset by the whole thing that I just put the magazine away in disgust. This is no time to be buying executive jets for the fat cats in the Navy which only adds to our defense budget. It is ill-timed and in bad taste when people are dying with no food to eat, no homes or livestock and no hope.

If it had something to do with terrorism, I would have kept quiet because that is a fight we need to win to save our country, despite the cost.

The Navy (or PAF?) recently aquired AWAC's from Saab as you know. That upset me too but I kept my feelings in check.
AWACS have nothing to do with the war we are fighting -- unless I am mistaken. They are aimed at India.

I will see if I can locate the magazine again -- but Barnes & Noble may not have an outlet where I live, some 22 miles from the center of Washington DC. The magazine looks at both military and commercial aviation because there was an article with pictures of the 787 Dreamliner alongside an article and pictures about the Sino-Pakistan J-17 Thurder at Farnborough. I felt proud for a second but then thought of the cost and of the resources denied to the poor.

[Abbas Ali]

The Navy (or PAF?) recently aquired AWAC's from Saab as you know. That upset me too but I kept my feelings in check.
AWACS have nothing to do with the war we are fighting -- unless I am mistaken. They are aimed at India.

The Saab 2000 ERIEYE (AEW&C) aircraft along with a standard Saab 2000 are acquired by PAF and agreement for their procurement was signed quite some years ago.

In my opinion, Pakistan Air Force needed to have aircraft with Airborne Early Warning and Control System in its inventory for country's security. The induction of this type of aircraft was long overdue. As far as I know, since 80s PAF had been trying to acquire this type of aircraft.

I do not favour wars between countries but if things go wrong and in case of a serious conflict with India, the Saab 2000 ERIEYE (AEW&C) will enable PAF to get early information about movement of hostile aircraft and guide PAF aircraft to intercept them.

Abbas

[meekal ahmed]

Abbas,

I know the Saab aircraft is a long story and I appreciate its usefulness in giving us early-warning as to what the Big Bully on the Block is upto.

Of course the forces must be well-equipped except that I don't know who they are planning to fight. India? Most unlikely. If the do, the entire sub-continent will vaporize and we all know why that would happen.

We must have a credible defense all the same. I agree. But buying Executive Jets is just plain wrong, wasteful, unnecessary, ill-timed, insensitive, and downright grotesque.

By the way, where are the Navy brass going to go in them? To attend meetings in Islamabad? Aren't they commercial flights.

The article accompanying the picture only made reference to the Navy. Configuration? Some nice reclining seats, a granite bathroom may be with gold-plated faucets, a galley for the sahib's chai and samosa's, and who knows, may be a discretely concealed bar?

You know what I am saying.

No, it was not the XP. I am familiar with that type. I am sorry I forgot what alphabets came after "800".

Keep a close watch out Abbas, especially the Dawn newspaper (may be others such as Express Tribune) who will certainly report it and give you a picture as well

Finally, I know these a/c were ordered before the floods because they are long lead times. If I was the Defense Minister (which I am not) in the light of what the people are going through I would have ordered their immediate storage outside Pakistan until a more suitable time.

[nd]

any updates

[meekal ahmed]

I am going into town today and will either buy the magazine or copy down the name. May be one can read some of it on the net.

The first a/c should have been delivered by now and even if there wasn't a big ceremoney I am surprised that the media has not captured the event.

The article suggested that they would then all be sent out of the country for retro-fitting.

[Abbas Ali]

I would like to know details of that photo caption and if possible photo of the aircraft.

The reason I asked about aircraft configuration is that I don't think all these four Hawker 850XP aircraft will be in VIP configuration as acquistion of four VIP aircraft by Navy will be seen as highly controversial and beyond requirements of Navy's VIP flights.

Probably one or maximum two Hawker 850XP as VIP aircraft will replace Fokker F-27 aircraft that was/were used to transport Pakistan Navy officers.

Out of these four Hawker 850XP aircraft, two or three could be military variant of the aircraft to be used by Pakistan Navy for missions like reconnaissance, maritime search and rescue etc. and might replace a number of Fokker F-27 used by Pakistan Navy for such missions.

Following are photos of military variants of Hawker 800 used by defence forces of South Korea and Japan. Hawker 850XP is a new version of Hawker 800.

Raytheon Hawker 800SIG operated by Republic of Korea Air Force (ROKAF) for surveillance, tactical reconnaissance and SIGINT (SIGnals INTelligence) missions, according to info on the web.


Click here to see large photo.

Military variant of Hawker 800 designated as U-125A by Japan Air Self Defense Force (JASDF) for maritime search and rescue missions.

Click here to see large photo.

Some of Hawker 850XP acquired by Pakistan Navy could be aircraft's military variants like used by South Korea and Japan shown here.

Abbas

[meekal ahmed]

Abbas,

The magazine is Air International, September 2010 issue. The caption is "Pakistan Navy Hawker 850XL Delivered".

The picture I will post later. Will get my daughter to do it since she is good at that! Not me.

The write-up says "Transiting Glasgow-Prestwick Airport, Ayr, on August 14 was Hawker 850XP N982XP (cn 258982, ex N3482Y) one of four destined for the Pakistan Navy for use as VIP Transports. The aircraft arrived from Gander in Canada and left Prestwick for Istanbul later the same day on its way to Pakistan to participate in an official hand over ceremony. Following the ceremony the aircraft will be flown to Dallas Texas for outfitting before return to Pakistan".

I can only assume that the other three will go direct to Dallas for "outfitting".

I don't know how the media missed it. May be the "ceremony" was deliberately kept low-key.

The magazine also has a two-page write-up on the Sino-Pak J-17 Thunder, with pictures, at Farnborough.

Too bad it has a Russian engine because there are concerns the Russians might stop delivery of the engines if, as hoped, Pakistan receives export orders for the aircraft which would provide direct competition to Russia's own military aircraft export drive.

However, a Chinese-built engine is under test.

The write-up speaks very positively about the Thunder and its capabilities.

[Abbas Ali]

The magazine is Air International, September 2010 issue. The caption is "Pakistan Navy Hawker 850XL Delivered".
The picture I will post later. Will get my daughter to do it since she is good at that! Not me.

The write-up says "Transiting Glasgow-Prestwick Airport, Ayr, on August 14 was Hawker 850XP N982XP (cn 258982, ex N3482Y)

Thank you Meekal for info about magazine and aircraft construction number.

Abbas

[Abbas Ali]

Hawker 850XP aircraft construction number 258982 was built in year 2008 according to info on Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) website - www.faa.gov - about aircraft i.e. construction number 258982 that was registered as N982XP in USA.

Before registration N982XP, this particular aircraft was registered in year 2008 in Aruba as P4-NUR for Jet Airlines JSC - www.jetairlines.kz - based in Almaty, Kazakhstan.

N3482Y was the first registration for this aircraft, probably for pre-delivery test flights conducted by Hawker Beechcraft Corp.

Here's information on Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) about last known registration N982XP sported by this aircraft in August 2010.

Registration: N982XP
Aircraft Serial/Construction Number: 258982
Manufacturer Name: Hawker Beechcraft Corp.
Aircraft Model: Hawker 850XP
Year Built: 2008
Registration Certificate Issue Date: August 2, 2010
Registration Cancellation Date: August 30, 2010
Reason for Cancellation: Exported
Export To: Pakistan

Source: FAA Registry

The cancellation of registration N982XP means the aircraft has received a new registration or military aircraft serial number, probably Pakistan civil aircraft registration (AP-***) or Pakistan Navy military aircraft serial number.

Abbas

[Adnan Anwar]

Too bad it has a Russian engine because there are concerns the Russians might stop delivery of the engines if, as hoped, Pakistan receives export orders for the aircraft which would provide direct competition to Russia's own military aircraft export drive.

The chances of Russia blocking the RD-93 engine on JF-17 are very low. Main reason, Russia has learned from USA strategy of not lock itself with one country. Russia has engaged mainly in supplying fighter jets to India while has never agreed to Pakistan requests for SU-27 in 1990 (even though Pakistan never officially acknowledged making a request to Russia). But since USA is offering F-16IN and even F-35A JSF to India, Russia is being careful not loose millions in R&D costs in developing the RD-93. Either way, if in case RD-93 option is lost, Chinese option may be there and if Chinese power plant provides more thrust then RD-93, then JF-17 performance will benefit a lot.

[meekal ahmed]

Thank you for this information.

I was actually paraphrasing what the article accompanying the pictures of the Thunder said.

[Abbas Ali]

Pakistan Navy inducts a Hawker Beechcraft 850XP Information Warfare aircraft and four new Harbin Z-9EC Anti-Submarine Warfare (ASW) helicopters

November 4, 2010 – Pakistan Navy has inducted a Hawker Beechcraft 850XP Information Warfare (IW) aircraft and four new Chinese-built Harbin Z-9EC Anti-Submarine Warfare (ASW) helicopters. These flying machines will work with Sword Class Chinese-built F-22P frigates of Pakistan Navy. The induction ceremony was held at Pakistan Navy base and headquarter of naval aviation PNS Mehran in Karachi.

The Hawker 850XP in news video footage is in executive jet livery and appears to be sporting USA aircraft registration N982XP. Most probably it will receive Pakistan Navy markings and serial number and some externally visible fittings like antennas, various lumps and bumps housing equipment for Information Warfare missions sometime later.

Here's November 4, 2010, Pakistan Television (PTV) 9:00PM news bulletin report:



Abbas

[Abbas Ali]

Here's a photo of Hawker Beechcraft 850XP (registration N982XP) acquired by Pakistan Navy. The aircraft will be used in the role of Information Warfare (IW).

Photo taken at Quetta International Airport/PAF Base Samungli on September 10, 2010.

Click here to see large photo.

Abbas