EU set to ban most PIA Planes

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Abbas Ali
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Re: Northwest Airlines

Post by Abbas Ali »

F27 wrote:
Abbas Ali wrote:
zerbaer wrote:As for the EC restrictions for PK aircraft, it includes one B777!
Is it one of PIA's first three B777-240ERs? and can we know its registration?
It is the one that had shed it's pylon panels twice at Manchester. One was recovered in one piece while the other was run over by a taxying aircraft. It happened in October2006.
It was Boeing 777-240LR, registration AP-BGZ (see topic: AP-BGZ incident at MAN)

Are you guys sure a B777 is in ban list? A number of news reports indicate all seven B777s of PIA allowed in EU countries.
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BOEING777
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Post by BOEING777 »

Abbas,

AFAIK, no Boeing 777's have been banned or will be banned. 8)
F27
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Post by F27 »

Adnan Anwar wrote:
F27 wrote:
Adnan Anwar wrote:What PIA should do immediately is return all the leased A310 if they are not allowed by EU as well.

THere is no point paying for their lease if they cannot pay for themselves. PIA should replace its 747's with someother aircraft that is available as stop gap measure. But PIA needs to find permanent solution fo rthe long run quickly.
PIA is bound to pay the lease rental and maintenance reserves for 10 years. You fly the A31L or return them is immaterial. PIA has been leeched.
The only safe exit is the B747 operations.
No leeching, every contract has a way out. Those legal contracts always have a hole in them as far the language is concerned. many interpretations and comrpehension when in the hands of competent lawyers.
If you had seen the contract you would have been surprised by the shrewdness of the *FISH*. No way out! That is the reason that PIA will be flying the A31L junk until 2012 i.e when the contract expires.
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Post by DC10 »

ali_khan wrote:I doubt the fact that PIA's maintenance standards and other checks they perform are lower in quality and credibility than those of Biman, Syrian, etc.

If you notice PIA has monopoly on routes from Europe to Pakistan. Maybe EU wants to restrict flights by PIA to let EU carriers to have a chance to fly to Pakistan?
How naive could you be!! Thanx to the EC PIA Engineering has been exposed and their 'nek parveen' cover blown up.
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Post by DC10 »

Six B777s and AP-BGG(B743) are allowed entry into EU airspace.
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Charliedelta11
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Post by Charliedelta11 »

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I doubt the fact that PIA's maintenance standards and other checks they perform are lower in quality and credibility than those of Biman, Syrian, etc.
ok..u want to know how AMAZING PIA's maintenance standards are ? Walk around any aircraft..and ur going to find spots that have been covered by high speed tape..
once a section of an A310 winglet broke off...how was it handled ? high speed tape!
the Forward landing gear light had a broken glass cover..to prevent shards from flying off and damaging the fuselage during take off and landing..the simple solution ? high speed DUCT TAPE..
a brand new 772 had a fire break out in the landing gear carriage..why ? cheap chinese grease in place of the recommended grease
instrument lights are'nt working on long haul flights..the engineering department just signs the flight log saying its been fixed when it hasnt..
now they might seem like minute things..but thhey can have disastrous affects..and i can go on if u want about the short comings of the engineering department ..
and why buy new planes ? how long will it take for the in competence of the engg. to wreck them too ?

this is what will happen...the A310's will be restricted to the Far East..the jumbos will continue to ply in the middle east...the 737-800 order TK's been going on about will never materialise..why ? because the govt. will inject more money into PIA to buy widebodies..
can the 7 B777's actually make up for all the flights the 777...12 A310's and the 5/6 or so 747's were doing ? or make up for the loss in capactiy ?
ok..lets not forget the fact that the 777's..inspite of being brand new will be grounded due to some problem during the period that these widebodies will be plying on these routes..because nknowing how jinxed PIA is har jahaz mein kabhi na kabhi koi na koi masla to ahi jata hai..
what then ?


PIA is considering leasing passenger planes and crew due to a looming European Union ban on more than three-quarters of its ageing fleet over safety concerns, PIA officials said.
wow..so let me guess..they found some airline thats been running old junkyard heap and PIA is more than willing to get the old planes off their hands like they did with the L1011's for hajj operations and term it as an 'interim solution'?

my advice ? privatise it..get it off the hands of the govt..have some big airline buy it..the problems PIA is facing are as obvious daylight..and it wont take long to fix them..we just need someone at the helm who has the drive to bring about big changes..
what good are flight attendants from all over the world when half your fleet isnt allowed to travel half of the globe ?these are superficial changes..we need planes..people who can look after these planes..and people who can market the routes these planes are lfying on..at the moment PIA is facing a major deficit in these 3 major arenas..
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BOEING777
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Post by BOEING777 »

DC10 wrote:Six B777s and AP-BGG(B743) are allowed entry into EU airspace.
Wrong- 7 Boeing 777's.

2 -200LR
2 -300ER
3 -200ER

8)
Moin
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Post by Moin »

Privatisation? Yes, a good solution for the future, but only after PIA pulls up its socks and proves itself to be a profitable organisation rather than a prospective white elephant.

Anyone even remotely considering investing in this airline will first evaluate the financial health of the company. Right now PIA is on a life support machine (the Govt) and the plug can be pulled at any time. Being in such precarious a position would hardly be an enticing prospect for anyone and not everyone is Lee Iacocca.

Ask yourself, if you were a financial magnate with billions of $, would you consider investing in this airline in the current state that it is? I think not. Because the baggage that this package comes with is mind staggering. Laying off thousands of unnecessary employees, then paying huge legal fees when they take the airline to court for premature dismissal, purchasing new a/c, revamping every department, restructuring the pay scale, keeping the employees happy, cleaning house etc. It would be a nightmare. Neither is Pakistan the worlds favourite tourist destination that would make it worthwhile to invest and restructure its airline to help the tourist industry. The countries state of affairs also have alot to do with attracting a foreign investor to put their money into this ailing airline. Most foreign investors are already involved in court litigations here and banging their heads in frustration, regretting their decision of ever having thought of coming here. There just isn't enough potential to attract anyone to consider investing in this airline. Biman let out feelers that it was looking for foreign investors but no one came forward, the reason being that there was simply not enough potential in the airline, or even the country for that matter.

As for the shoddy maintenance of PIA a/c, I'm sure M.Ali (Aer Pakistan) would gladly provide ample proof of that. He has seen, handled and checked just about every square inch of every PIA a/c that has landed at LHR and some of his revelations would be enough to make you not want to fly in an a/c ever again. Sure, some of those a/c may look very nice and clean on the outside but whats under the skin is another matter and equally important. This talk of duct tape is extremely disconcerting, yet laughable but scary all the same.

I don't even think Biman flies their DC-10's into LHR anymore. Its the A310 now. The last time the DC-10 was in the UK was in MAN sometime last year and that too for only the peak season. Iran Air has stopped 747SP flights to LHR as they're being retired and now sends the AB6 and their 741, Syrian will be sending A320's instead of their 747SP's until they get 4 777's later on this year (used ones from SV I believe), RJ is flying its A342's and A321's instead of their A310's which are also being retired, but either way I'm pretty sure their maintenance practices are more upto mark than PIA.

Privatisation is a solution but the Govt would have to want to do that. Its clinging onto PIA for dear life yet at the same time expects it to function normally with whatever little they begrudgingly inject into it to keep it alive. Also once privatised, who's going to cater to all those self touting VIP's with their free tickets and excess baggage? No private airline is going to allow or put up with any of their idiosincracies and primadonna like behaviour.When they fly PIA, they're like lions but on a foreign airline, they behave like mice.
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Post by FULLTHRUST »

Moin bhai itni batain kyun kartay ho, PIA (aur PIA say related) may sab khanay kay chakkar may hain!!
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Post by ali_khan »

how about if:

a) PIA is shut down, and Pakistani government becomes a partner with Gulf Air along with the governments of UAE and Bahrain.

or

b) Allow some foreign airline to acquire PIA like what happened to SriLankan.

The only problem with option b is that then all the admin staff and other high ranking positions will not be that open to Pakistanis and hence, it will be a leakage for the Pakistani economy.

I think Pakistani govt. should take out its B743s, B742s and A310s. ATRs, and 733s should be given to the private Pakistani airlines on favorable leases/prices (the rest sold). Atleast, this way the Pakistani aviation sector will thrive. The withdrawn aircrafts can be converted to cargo (a few to VIP) and a national cargo airline should be operated instead. Also, the 777s should be inducted to Gulf Air (if Pakistani govt. decides to become a partner) or be sold.

I would love to say that PIA should meet the challenges but lets face it, airlines of this size are not easy to maintain by governments of poor nations.
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Post by PK777 »

This is reaally bad for PIA! PIA should seriously review its aircraft, as Moin has said TK seems to be doing a pretty lousy job to run PIA... even M. Ali (AERPAK) seems to be againt TK! Looks like PIA is going to have to downsize its fleet dramatically and invest in more new safe fuel efficient aircraft.

Also, I dont understand why the engineering is in such a state they seem to be doing really well with the awards and services of other airline aircraft - cant believe PIA engineering dept is cutting corners!
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Post by zerbaer »

Keeping aircraft airworthy is the owner/operator's responsibility. Are you saying there are unsafe aircraft being manufactured which PIA has been acquiring? Was it not PIA's B777 that dropped parts on the runway in UK & in another incident was taxing with its engine fan door cowl unlatched, not to mention the flaming wheels (7 incidents)?

..... tum bhee khul jaao gey do char mulakaton mein.
zerbaer
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Post by zerbaer »

Everything in the press about the details of EC restrictions isn't very clear. I think we should wait for the EU Parliament's decision based on the inspection findings of EC's Aviation Safety Administrator.
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Re: Northwest Airlines

Post by AirBlue »

BOEING777 wrote:
zerbaer wrote:Northwest Fleet

Notice they still operate 152 DC9s !!
Whats your point?

They only fly within the US and are obviously up to scratch with the FAA's requirements- whereas PK's soon-to-be-banned airplanes are not up to scratch with the EU laws.

There is a difference :roll:
The DC9's are fitted with hush kits ... thats why they are flying into Canada as well. North America allows stage 2 airplanes but only with hush kits
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Post by mohammad abdulaziz »

PIA mulls over leasing planes as EU ban looms

KARACHI, Feb 24: Pakistan International Airlines (PIA) is considering leasing passenger planes and crew due to a looming European Union ban on more than three-quarters of its ageing fleet over safety concerns, PIA officials said.

The state-run airline was warned last year that most of its planes failed to meet international standards, and on Friday an EU source revealed that all but seven of PIA’s 42 planes would be barred from landing in the EU.

The EU source in Brussels said the European Commission’s decision was likely to take effect in about nine days.

A Pakistan International Airlines (PIA) statement said the airline was unaware of any expected ban, though officials, who requested anonymity, said Pakistan’s embassy in Brussels had informed the airline of the impending ban.

Technical fitness of aircraft, airworthiness and other cabin specific issues were discussed in three days of talks between PIA and EU air safety officials that ended on Friday, PIA said.

“They appreciated PIA’s efforts towards maximisation of its aircraft, excellent maintenance standards and airworthiness,” the statement said. “Necessary refurbishment of PIA’s old aircraft is in the pipeline as per European Union standards,” it added.—Reuters

Source: http://www.dawn.com/2007/02/25/nat2.htm