EU set to ban most PIA Planes

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sadiqhassan
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Post by sadiqhassan »

So does this mean that PIA LHR-KHI flights will no longer operate?
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zerbaer
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Northwest Airlines

Post by zerbaer »

Northwest Fleet

Notice they still operate 152 DC9s !!


Make/Model Count
AIRBUS A-319 66
AIRBUS A-320 75
AIRBUS A-330 24
BOEING B-747 43
BOEING B-757 71
DOUG DC-10 10
DOUG DC-9 152
zerbaer
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Post by zerbaer »

My point is very simple. As long as PIA owns aircraft the inadequate management sits on their ass doing nothing. By leasing aircrafts, no matter how incompetent the management or the engineering department is, the maintenance will be done by the leasing company.
Maintenance on wet leased (ACMI) aircraft is the responsibility of the lessor. Dry lease, like the A310 deal, makes the lessee responsible for maintenance & airworthiness. Wet leasing effectively means you can let go of nearly all employees.
zerbaer
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Post by zerbaer »

Something needs to be understood, which is deliberately ignored by industry professionals on this forum. The relative age of aircraft is not the issue nor the cause of catastrophic financial & technical failure that PIA is. As Kashif & Abdul Samee have concluded, it is how well or badly the equipment & airline is being managed. All expertise, tools, money etc have been made available to PIA employees' (management) discretion to meet the minimum established standards, apparently to no avail. Surprisingly some of the 'old' PIA airplanes are in very acceptable mod/airworthiness status, while others of same vintage are a mess! The last management of Ahmed Saeed (worked w/o salary!) installed the infamous Avio business seats on A310 (was it BEQ ?) when a STC (Supplemental Type Certificate from manufacturer was the pre requisite). Similarly, they also went ahead and installed new Matsushita IFE system on B742 & made unapproved modifications to the seats to accomodate the latest IFE they loved as much as the Avio seats - STC was/is required in this case also. The unapproved & unheard of modification added more than 40 kg weight to the seats.



It is indeed very tragic that the probable EU restrictions are being celebrated by some as validation for getting newer aircraft at any cost to the real owners. Nang-e-deen naang-e- watan......
Amaad Lone
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Post by Amaad Lone »

Well in the short term PIA can overcome the crisis by deploying 747-300 to New York, and Chicago via Istanbul.

Since the 747-300s can easily do the Istanbul to North American flight non-stop.

Toronto will remain non-stop with the 777-200LRs.

PIA will need atleast two 777-200ERs for the 14 odd European flights (excluding UK) a week.

Lahore-Copenhagen-Oslo 2 weekly
Lahore-Frankfurt-Amsterdam 2 weekly
Lahore-Paris-Rome 2 weekly
Islamabd-Paris 2 weekly
Karachi-Moscow 2 weekly
Lahore-Milan-Athens 2 weekly
Islamabad-Istanbul-Frankfurt 2 weekly

UK flights can be covered by two 777-300ERs, and two 777-200ERs.

So basically six 777s out of the eight will go to UK and Europe.

But in the long run PIA needs to revamp its maintainance base in Karachi, and probably pay better salaries to bring back the people who have left.
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BOEING777
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Re: Northwest Airlines

Post by BOEING777 »

zerbaer wrote:Northwest Fleet

Notice they still operate 152 DC9s !!
Whats your point?

They only fly within the US and are obviously up to scratch with the FAA's requirements- whereas PK's soon-to-be-banned airplanes are not up to scratch with the EU laws.

There is a difference :roll:
Ehsen Ali
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Post by Ehsen Ali »

Well, since Oslo isn't a EU country, maybe there's a possibility of sending their A310 there? :?
taz95
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Gulf News Articles published on 24-02-07

Post by taz95 »

EU set to ban most PIA flights due to safety fears
Reuters



Brussels: The European Union is set to ban most of Pakistan International Airlines' fleet from flying to the 27-country bloc because of safety concerns, an EU source said yesterday.

The source said a committee of experts had decided to block all but seven planes of the airline's 40-plane fleet from flying to Europe for failing to meet international safety standards. "Only those seven will be allowed to make flights to European Union countries," the source said. "The rest of the fleet will be blacklisted."

The decision is likely to come into force in about 10 days, the source said, once made official by the European Commission.

Disruption

He said the decision could cause disruptions to passengers because the airline had flight connections to Britain, France, Germany, Greece, Italy and the Netherlands.

Last year the Commission banned nearly 100 airlines from operating in the bloc, targeting mostly African carriers after a spate of fatal crashes involving European passengers.
Moin
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Post by Moin »

It obviously has to do with maintenance and other a/c related issues. I do not think theres any discrimination involved, as there are other ways to do that.

There are airlines that have fleets with a/c as old if not older than PIA such as Biman, Air India, Iran Air, Sudan Airways, Uzbekistan, Royal Brunei, Royal Jordanian, Syrian Air, Libyan Arab etc yet those airlines are not restricted in any way from flying into the EU because they maintain their a/c upto scratch and worldwide aviation safety standards.

PIA's fleet must seriously be in bad shape for the EU to take such drastic a measure.
Moin Abbasi
mohammad abdulaziz
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Post by mohammad abdulaziz »

Amaad, Are you saying that the ban would not affect PIA operations negatively in the short run as PIA is in a position to manage this situation through reshuffling the routes of aircrafts?

Can we draw this conclusion from your statement that there is nothing to worry about this development in the short run.


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Kashif
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Post by Kashif »

It is correct that Norway is not a part of the EU but the EU ban will also apply to Norway because Norway is part of the EEC parnership (Which also Iceland and Switzerland is)
Moin
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Post by Moin »

I think Amaad is merely suggesting a short term, interim solution. No need for such bold typing. New a/c cannot be acquired overnight and neither can PIA shut down operations to one third of its route network. Leasing or even purchasing newer a/c can take several months, its not a question of days.
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behramjee
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Post by behramjee »

I fail to understand how PIAs A 310 and B 743 fleet get banned from flying in EU airspace but there is no problem for Biman's DC 10 and A 310 fleet of which the former is way older than PKs B 747 fleet !!!
LC
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Post by LC »

Amaad Lone wrote:
Lahore-Copenhagen-Oslo 2 weekly
Lahore-Frankfurt-Amsterdam 2 weekly
Lahore-Paris-Rome 2 weekly
Islamabd-Paris 2 weekly
Karachi-Moscow 2 weekly
Lahore-Milan-Athens 2 weekly
Islamabad-Istanbul-Frankfurt 2 weekly
Would it make sense to cut some of these 2x routes and go 7x to FRA or AMS or CDG or IST? Have a code share with a local airline which can take PIA passengers to other EU countries and even to US/Canada. This may even allow PIA to increase frequncy to JFK/ORD.
GLA777
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Post by GLA777 »

Anyone know what will happen with the UK routes?
London
Glasgow
Manchester
Birmingham