EU set to ban most PIA Planes

[Che]

Well if you look at the hiring practices at PIA, for the last 15 - 20 years, this is not surprising. Most of the engineers, managers that were hired in the 50's , 60 and 70's have retired, and corrupt, inept people were hired starting in mid 80's (thanx to Gen. Zia ul Haq). PIA has been mismanaged so grossly, that the only way out is to sell it. It is a pain to see PIA drop to this level in world aviation.

BS, the most inept people were hired by the first BB gov't in '88, after the death of Zia...

All the jialays and incompetent buffoons from interior sindh were brought in from God knows where and dumped on PIA in the thousands...And I saw this first hand...

[FULLTHRUST]

Well if you look at the hiring practices at PIA, for the last 15 - 20 years, this is not surprising. Most of the engineers, managers that were hired in the 50's , 60 and 70's have retired, and corrupt, inept people were hired starting in mid 80's (thanx to Gen. Zia ul Haq). PIA has been mismanaged so grossly, that the only way out is to sell it. It is a pain to see PIA drop to this level in world aviation.

Before the Zia's era, people like MA geography, BSc Botoany, have been the chief engineers and director engg of pia. what are you talking about. The most brilliant people in engineering were hired in 80s and early 90s, majority have left pia due to matriculate/non-matriculate boses and their policies.

[FULLTHRUST]

Well if you look at the hiring practices at PIA, for the last 15 - 20 years, this is not surprising. Most of the engineers, managers that were hired in the 50's , 60 and 70's have retired, and corrupt, inept people were hired starting in mid 80's (thanx to Gen. Zia ul Haq). PIA has been mismanaged so grossly, that the only way out is to sell it. It is a pain to see PIA drop to this level in world aviation.

Before the Zia's era, people like MA geography, BSc Botany, have been the chief engineers and director engg of pia. what are you talking about. The most brilliant people in engineering were hired in 80s and early 90s, majority have left pia due to matriculate/non-matriculate boses and their policies.

[atmalik]

DAWN Internet Edition March 1 2007:

http://www.dawn.com/2007/03/02/nat3.htm

Ambassador of Germany confirms PIA ban

By Mohammad Ali Khan

PESHAWAR, March 1: No aircraft of Pakistan International Airlines (PIA), except Boeing 777, would be allowed to land in any of the 27 European Union states from March 8, German Ambassador to Pakistan Dr Gunter Mulack said here on Thursday.

Responding to a question at a press conference here on Thursday, the ambassador said that the EU decision on the ban was final because most of PIA’s planes did not meet the required safety standards.

A meeting of the EU authorities would be held on March 5 or 7 to take a formal decision.

Germany, which holds the presidency of the EU, recently refused to grant landing permission to a Frankfurt-bound Airbus flight from Islamabad.

Dr Mulack pointed out that Pakistan had been informed of the decision about a year ago. “PIA was asked time and again to improve safety standards by inducting modern aircraft in its fleet.”

Because of the ban, only Boeing 777 aircraft of PIA would be able to land in European countries.

[zerbaer]

Does B777 perform maint. on itself to the satisfaction of regulators worldwide? Don't believe Dr Mulack would utter that - unlike our Senate Chairman who famously said about A300B4 fleet that they were "unsafe". Here is what was noted in PIA's own de-brief in connection with EU's recent visit to CAA:

Improper Ajrcraft Defect Rectifications. EU Inspectors narrated several examples to show improperly conducted routine defect rectification being performed by Line Maint. (1) Aircrew was reporting flowing Skydrol leakage from one of the Boeing -777 PCUs. The defect had not been cleared for over ONE MONTH by PIA Engineering staff and was continuously being written off in the Aircraft Technical Log as "Leak Checked: Found within Limits". (2) An A310 aircraft had a multiple repeated series of problems with its landing gear extension/retraction mechanism using the main Hydraulic system. Alternate hydraulic system (an emergency backup system only) was being used by aircrew for more than 15 days & constituted serious safety hazard. (3) A Boeing 747 aircraft had repeatedly reported problems of "Aircraft pulling left during taxi". This defect was reported several times for more than one week. Each time short cut maint was done disregarding performance of the systematic series of checks as required by the Aircraft Maintenance Manual (4) A PIA aircraft had to be switched-off during departure start-up due to sticky flight controls (Aileron) movement. However this snag was summarily cleared as "Snag could be not duplicated on ground. Ops checked & found Sat." The complete sequence of required maintenance checks mandatory to be performed in such a case of critical system like Flight Control was totally ignored. These actions indicate that there is no specific direction, monitoring or control dealing with repeated defects and for referral to technical manuals in serious events.

Enqine Trend Analysis, This also is a pure Development Engineering function presently being performed by Engg Quality Systems in a totally ineffective manner. Engine trend monitoring is a mandatory legal requirement for ETOPS operations on B-777 and A-310 aircraft. The Engine trend reports are not being forwarded to Pratt & Whitney in the 3 days time limit. Sometime PIA is taking more than a month instead of 3 days to furnish engine performance data to the Manufacturer. General Electric has also not been fed their engines' data, thus PIAC is not getting analysis from OEMs on health of GE Engines. Engineering QA is not monitoring the functions or ensuring proper corrective actions on these deficiencies.

Someone be embarrassed for PIA.

[DC10]

DAWN Internet Edition March 1 2007:

http://www.dawn.com/2007/03/02/nat3.htm

Ambassador of Germany confirms PIA ban

By Mohammad Ali Khan

PESHAWAR, March 1: No aircraft of Pakistan International Airlines (PIA), except Boeing 777, would be allowed to land in any of the 27 European Union states from March 8, German Ambassador to Pakistan Dr Gunter Mulack said here on Thursday.

Dr Mulack pointed out that Pakistan had been informed of the decision about a year ago. “PIA was asked time and again to improve safety standards by inducting modern aircraft in its fleet.”

Because of the ban, only Boeing 777 aircraft of PIA would be able to land in European countries.

What Nisar Memon is to Pakistan Dr Gunter Mulack is to Germany. It has now transpired that B777 is the only plane which is capable of carrying out on board self-maintenance, pay the salaries of PIA staff, and even help WAPDA by generating electricity on ground.
Last but not the least, why should a German be promoting an American plane when Airbus Industrie is in financial trouble? A310 should not be banned entry into Europe at least.

[Jacobin777]

DAWN Internet Edition March 1 2007:

http://www.dawn.com/2007/03/02/nat3.htm

Ambassador of Germany confirms PIA ban

By Mohammad Ali Khan

PESHAWAR, March 1: No aircraft of Pakistan International Airlines (PIA), except Boeing 777, would be allowed to land in any of the 27 European Union states from March 8, German Ambassador to Pakistan Dr Gunter Mulack said here on Thursday.

Dr Mulack pointed out that Pakistan had been informed of the decision about a year ago. “PIA was asked time and again to improve safety standards by inducting modern aircraft in its fleet.”

Because of the ban, only Boeing 777 aircraft of PIA would be able to land in European countries.

What Nisar Memon is to Pakistan Dr Gunter Mulack is to Germany. It has now transpired that B777 is the only plane which is capable of carrying out on board self-maintenance, pay the salaries of PIA staff, and even help WAPDA by generating electricity on ground.
Last but not the least, why should a German be promoting an American plane when Airbus Industrie is in financial trouble? A310 should not be banned entry into Europe at least.

maybe it stands to reason this has nothing to do with Airbus or Boeing...do you think that is a possibility?

[awasi]

Well if you look at the hiring practices at PIA, for the last 15 - 20 years, this is not surprising. Most of the engineers, managers that were hired in the 50's , 60 and 70's have retired, and corrupt, inept people were hired starting in mid 80's (thanx to Gen. Zia ul Haq). PIA has been mismanaged so grossly, that the only way out is to sell it. It is a pain to see PIA drop to this level in world aviation.

Before the Zia's era, people like MA geography, BSc Botoany, have been the chief engineers and director engg of pia. what are you talking about. The most brilliant people in engineering were hired in 80s and early 90s, majority have left pia due to matriculate/non-matriculate boses and their policies.

I strongly disagree with it. Just look at the graph of PIA and you will clearly see it started going down during Zia's tenure. The cabin crew hired was pathetic alongwith the ground crew. The Flight Operations and Engineering dept. fared somewhat better, but is now gradually on a downhill track too.

[FULLTHRUST]

awasi, I am only talking about PIA Engineering, you are right there was an in-flux of hundreds of INCOMPETENT people (call them jiyalas or leaguii). That was the END of airlines. If you oversee the big picture, people in engineering who were hired in late 70's 80's and early 90's were the people who ran the show with most widebodies ever in PIA, and also those guys were maintaining around 14 fpkkers as well. Majority left PIA due to incompetemt engg management and JAHIL bosses.

[FULLTHRUST]

DAWN Internet Edition March 1 2007:

http://www.dawn.com/2007/03/02/nat3.htm

Ambassador of Germany confirms PIA ban

By Mohammad Ali Khan

PESHAWAR, March 1: No aircraft of Pakistan International Airlines (PIA), except Boeing 777, would be allowed to land in any of the 27 European Union states from March 8, German Ambassador to Pakistan Dr Gunter Mulack said here on Thursday.

Dr Mulack pointed out that Pakistan had been informed of the decision about a year ago. “PIA was asked time and again to improve safety standards by inducting modern aircraft in its fleet.”

Because of the ban, only Boeing 777 aircraft of PIA would be able to land in European countries.

What Nisar Memon is to Pakistan Dr Gunter Mulack is to Germany. It has now transpired that B777 is the only plane which is capable of carrying out on board self-maintenance, pay the salaries of PIA staff, and even help WAPDA by generating electricity on ground.
Last but not the least, why should a German be promoting an American plane when Airbus Industrie is in financial trouble? A310 should not be banned entry into Europe at least.

DC10, could you please let the forum members know how a B777 central maintenance computer, CMC, does the SELF _MAINTENANCE?

It could do a BITE Check of itself ( Built-in Test Equipment), but how could a computer replace a hydraulic actuator? or a main wheel or a brake assembly?

[Adnan Anwar]

Well if you look at the hiring practices at PIA, for the last 15 - 20 years, this is not surprising. Most of the engineers, managers that were hired in the 50's , 60 and 70's have retired, and corrupt, inept people were hired starting in mid 80's (thanx to Gen. Zia ul Haq). PIA has been mismanaged so grossly, that the only way out is to sell it. It is a pain to see PIA drop to this level in world aviation.

Before the Zia's era, people like MA geography, BSc Botoany, have been the chief engineers and director engg of pia. what are you talking about. The most brilliant people in engineering were hired in 80s and early 90s, majority have left pia due to matriculate/non-matriculate boses and their policies.

I strongly disagree with it. Just look at the graph of PIA and you will clearly see it started going down during Zia's tenure. The cabin crew hired was pathetic alongwith the ground crew. The Flight Operations and Engineering dept. fared somewhat better, but is now gradually on a downhill track too.

Let me qoute you something from facts. The day martial law was imposed in Pakistan, my uncle, who was a senior Accounting officer(Malik Zulfiqar) in PIA had a visit from a senior leader from PIA union plus my Dad just happen to be visiting him at the same time. This union leader (who was a PPP jayala), was well dressed but spoke URdu like Benazir does. The union leader was fighting was 2000 others jayala's who were fired by PIA a month for not showing for work in the first place for 3 months. Second, they had failed for than 4 times to show up for any training courses which they are required too take and pass. This union leader rude and was threatening with attack on the office with other jayalas if their demands are met to reinstate the fired jayalas.

To set the record straight, the greatest amount of damage PIA suffered was from ZULFIQAR ALI BHUTTOS PAKISTAN PEOPLES PARTY. PIA in its history for the first time, got a Union, who had no knowgledge of the airline business, the airline was used to reward jayalas by PPP who had no skills otherwise but only good to collect paychecks but never showup for work. PIA in its history increased its workforce to 17000 employees when it has measly fleet of 28 aircrafts, even airlines in NOrth America with a fleet of 128 aircrafts have that many employees. The list goes on to say the least. PIA has been on the decline since the Peoples party came to power in 1970's.

[VC10]

Assalam-0 Aleikum Ali
I didn't wish to appear rude, but it seems we're both in agreeance about the gravity of the situation facing PIA.Immediate leasing of aircraft would seem to be the expeditious solution before delivery slots can be found for new aircraft.
Personally, I would like to see the future PIA long/medium haul fleet based around the B777/787, the short/medium haul fleet consist of B737NGs, and of course the short-haul fleet consist of ATRs.
Of course this beggars the question as to where the funds for fleet renewal will come from, that's why PIA should approach lessors/airlines now whilst the current mess is cleared up.I note that Qantas wet-leased a B747-300 to Garuda for Hajj, and that we have 5 well-maintained types left in our fleet.Maybe a good place for PIA management to start their search?
Regards, Mike.
P.S It's 44 degrees here in Townsville !!

[Max]

UK also bans PIA flights

FAHEEM RAZA
Karachi - Except 777-Airbuses of PIA the United Kingdom on Friday announced ban on the entry of PIA’s airbuses into its airspace from March 8, 2007, sources in PIA confirmed this new disturbing development to The Nation here on Friday.
It was true that the UK has announced ban on PIA’s flights entry into its airspace from next week, an official of the national flag-career said when The Nation approached him to ascertain the factual position.
“PIA’s team which left for talks with EU authorities this week is returning on Sunday which would further point out the nature of talks and future action of course to be adopted by the airline in the wake of ban imposed by the EU and the UK,” said the official.
The team of the national airline is holding talks in Brussels with the EU aviation authorities regarding ban on PIA’s airbuses, excluding 777-Boeings, said the official.
PIA Chairman Tariq Kirmani is heading the 6-member team, comprising senior officials of the airline belonging to engineering, security and aviation, etc.
The Nation learnt that no breakthrough has been reported in bilateral talks so far between PIA and the EU officials.
The officials of PIA are pessimistic about any breakthrough in talks with the aviation authorities in Europe, sources in PIA said.
Sources have termed UK’s ban on the flights of PIA another major blow to the operations and business of the national airline.
They maintained that the survival of the airline would be at stake in the EU and UK did not reverse their decisions of slapping ban on the entry of airbuses of PIA, excluding 777-Boeings.
Sources in PIA disclosed to The Nation that PK-765 flight took off from Islamabad airport on 25th February for Istanbul and Frankfurt with three flights captains Anwar Choudary, Azizudian and Eijaz. However, after landing at Istanbul PIA’s flight was not allowed to proceed to Frankfurt by the EU authorities on security grounds.
They said that the EU authorities have reversed back to base six different flights of PIA during the past one month on security grounds, but the PIA authorities did not take any notice of this policy of the EU that led to the imposition of ban.
Sources said that EU too gave March 8, 2007, deadline to PIA for imposing ban on flights, but the EU authorities acted ahead of this deadline as the management of the national airline continued to ignore warnings.

After this, I don't know what to say

When The Nation contacted spokesman of PIA Bashiar about ban imposed on United Kingdom on Pakistani Airbuses he confirmed that PIA had received notice from the British authorities, which allowed entry of only 777-Airbuses into UK and slapped a ban on rest of the fleet of the airline from March 8, 2007.

http://nation.com.pk/daily/mar-2007/3/index6.php

[zerbaer]

Misleading statements & reporting continues. Aircraft in compliance with maint. regulations can surely operate. Someone is going through a lot of trouble to pretending the 777s are exempt even if some of them are also non compliant.

[Abbas Ali]

Most PIA aircraft barred from flying to London, Frankfurt

By Saad Hasan

KARACHI: A restriction on all but seven aircraft of the Pakistan International Airlines (PIA) from flying to England and Germany came into force on Friday, triggering cancellation of flights to various European cities, aviation authorities told The News.

A PIA spokesman said the national flag carrier can now operate its B-777s only to London and Frankfurt, while the rest of the fleet, including A-310s and B-747s, would continue flights to other European destinations.

“It appears that the European Union committee (looking into airworthiness of the PIA aircraft) has not accepted the PIA’s request,” said Civil Aviation Authority (CAA) Director-General Farooq Rehmatullah, while referring to the negotiations between PIA high-ups and the EU authorities in Brussels.

Since it was reported late last month that the EU was contemplating to restrict a great part of the PIA fleet from flying to 27-nation bloc, the PIA management has maintained that the EU’s Air Safety Committee had expressed satisfaction over its aircraft fleet.

Travel agents said two PIA flights, one from Islamabad to Norwegian capital Oslo and another to Birmingham, were cancelled on Friday, reflecting an instant impact of the EU move on the PIA flight schedule.

The national flag carrier had earlier withdrawn its B-747s from EU destinations to avoid external observations and restarted usage after their refurbishment. “PIA had spent millions of dollars to refurbish each aircraft. I don’t understand when the African airlines can operate (to the EU) what’s wrong with our carriers?” a travel agent questioned.

Source: The News