Fleet news

[Charliedelta11]

i was wondering..what the hell is PIA upto!?
basically..between 2006-2008 there will be this major fleet vacuum!
with the 747-300's grounding process being started from next year...no lap modification on the 737's means they will be grounded too...F27's are mere scrap now..the first ATR will come in may..the 4th 777 in jan...we'll have a depserate shortage of short AND long haul aircraft! how much can 12 A310's and 4 777's work?!that is until the entire fleet of 777's and ATR's and 737-NG's is here...by 2012 atleast..till then...what is the scene ?

[F.K]

6 743s will remain operational till 2011 with 2 combis tentatively flying uo till 08 ...

[smarties]

Replacing the the combis should be a priority for PIA. by 2008, the planes will be touching almost 30 years.

[Aer Pakistan]

i think three out of six 747-300 will be ground by mid 2006 as pia in talk with boeing to lease three 777-300 for replacment and rest will be three 777-200's where there are few talk going on to get 737-800 and 320's too see what will happen ?

[PK777]

Very true Charliedelta11,

Surely they cant just ground these aircraft without nothing to replace them??!! Unless they have somehing in the works ?

[AirBlue]

I would say that PIA should go for all Boeing fleet and not waste time on the 320's while they can get better planes like the B737-7/8/9. It would be pretty cool to see an airline in Pak with all Boeing, one all Airbus and the rest with the oldies

[VC10]

Greetings to all from Downunder
As I've said before on this forum, I'm mystified as to why PIA would want to ground any of it's 747-300s for at least about 5 years. Qantas still operates six 747-300s ( at least one currently leased to Garuda for Hajj ), and has no plans for their imminent retirement.
Mike.

[raza]

As I read on this forum, that PIA is looking for 2 747s on dry lease.Can someone specify 747-400F or 747-400M or 747-200F

[zerbaer]

i think three out of six 747-300 will be ground by mid 2006 as pia in talk with boeing to lease three 777-300 for replacment and rest will be three 777-200's where there are few talk going on to get 737-800 and 320's too see what will happen ?

B743 grounding in 2006 won't be 'cause PK are or plan getting additional B777. Two of the B743 have not had the Section41 Mod incorporated - This point was ignored at time of acquisition from CX. Balance of the ex CX aircraft had the mod done. NO B747 WITH THE MOD DUE CAN FLY PAST 20k CYCLES. Even with time remaining to 20K cycles NONE CAN OPERATE BEYOND THE 2007 TERMINATION DATE. With PK B743s deployed to make up for the non availability of at least 2 wet leased B742 for Hajj, the 20K cycle limit will arrive sooner.

Talk on B737-800 has been around for awhile and for all practical purposes the arrangement with Boeing in almost in place - Requiste data & info was delivered to Boeing some while back.[/quote]

[cpt_747]

Qantas still operates six 747-300s ( at least one currently leased to Garuda for Hajj ), and has no plans for their imminent retirement.
Mike.

Hmm, Interesting topic. As far as the Qantas is in question, well they have upgraded their 747-300 fleet (that's what I heard from a friend of mine who work in American Airlines engineering department).

I must say that every time when PIA's 747-200,300s start their engines, it seems like a tractor or a truck is struggling. What I mean to say is that while, PIA have wasted/ invested a lot of $ in B777s, why not just change all the oldies? Maybe they should also look at what Airbus has to offer (A321s, A333s, A343, 5,600s), as these aircraft are much cheaper and way advanced than what we are getting from Boeing. The rest is up to PIA.

[zerbaer]

i think three out of six 747-300 will be ground by mid 2006 ....

The first B743 (AP-BFU) is now scheduled to ground in Jan 2006! It was to ground near Oct 2006. Guess PK consumed the remaining hours to Section 41 limit of 20K cycles sooner than scheduled. Think BFV ground after BFU.

[Abbas Ali]

Did a search on Boeing 747 Section 41 repair and found some useful info and photos:

Repairing most parts of the Boeing 747 is a relatively simple task but to repair the frames, webs and skin in Section 41 is a major problem. Section 41 of a Boeing 747 accounts for about forty percent of the cost since all of the controls, navigation and other functions are located in this first section. There are simply miles of wires, pipes and other controlling parts beginning in Section 41 and going to every part of the plane. There are instrument panels on the walls, the passenger seats are up front, in the upper cabin together with the service bays all of which makes it very expensive to see the supporting structure for cracks and other telltale failure problems such as corrosion. Many potentially dangerous cracks are so fine they cannot be seen with the naked eye. To bring in the X-ray equipment would be extremely expensive and most airlines cannot, or will not, afford such investigations.


This is a picture taken from a book which shows Section 41 and 42 being lifted from the bay where it was constructed over to the main assembly line where it will be married to the main cabin. The front section of this Boeing 747 is in green and is called Section 41. The section immediately behind this is Section 42. This picture shows Section 42 being lowered into position to be joined to the main fuselage. This technique of manufacturing sections and joining them together like a huge Lego set is quite normal for the industry. Curiously enough the break up of Pan Am 103 occurred at the joint between Section 41 and Section 42 while in the TWA 800 case Section 41 broke away and took part of Section 42 with it ....

Info Source: http://www.plane-truth.com/fatigue_details.htm

Some Photos:


Section 41 cracks


Section 41 cracks



Photos Source: http://www.iasa.com.au/folders/Safety_I ... nionn.html

[BOEING777]

Maybe they should also look at what Airbus has to offer (A321s, A333s, A343, 5,600s), as these aircraft are much cheaper and way advanced than what we are getting from Boeing. The rest is up to PIA.

Thats a bit of a thoughtless comment. Depending on what exactly it is that you compare between two airplanes, in reality, Boeing and Airbus airplanes are both advanced.

Unless you have factual data that suggests that Boeings technology is behind the times? I dont think that the near 800 777 orders lie. Nor do the near 350 orders for the 787 in under 24 months? Or the fact that over 6000 737s have been order in less that 40 years? Thats more orders that AB has ever even produced! And the current 737NG is not FBW either....

[zerbaer]

The 6 ex CX B743s have the section 41 mod incorporated, PK's B742s have it and so do all affected B747s in the world that are to continue operating.

The mod in done in conjunction with D check. Would highly recommend, for educational purposes, that some of us take a look at an aircraft undergoing D check at PIA. All that is mentioned as near impossible is taken apart anyway.

Believe cockpit PK crews / flt ops have been and are kids playing in the hands of very crafty operators. Its like asking sahib's drivers whether they would prefer new & expensive cars as opposed the what the sahib has and can afford and then using the drivers views as basis for acquiring new equipment. In PK's case, most forget, its a public corp. with tremendous accumulated liabilities for the publics account - It does not exist to enslave the public in debts just so some can get their jollies by operating fancy equipment. Next time you receive your utility bills try passing them on to your neighbors for payment!

[FULLTHRUST]

Its like asking sahib's drivers whether they would prefer new & expensive cars as opposed the what the sahib has and can afford and then using the drivers views as basis for acquiring new equipment.

Sahib is an A**O and drivers are for $$$$$$.

Bottomline is adhocism, save your chair, and rest lies with sahibs stick!!!!!