PIA Board of Directors meeting

Discuss issues and news related to PIA, Pakistani airlines and Pakistan's civil & military aviation.
nutsforplanes
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Post by nutsforplanes »

PK cannot support half of these destinations even with 2 weekly flights
.

Thats right! No airline can make a profit on a route with only two weekly flights.

Does the PIA Board of Dir's. have an inkling as to how to run an airline or are these people on for a free ride like everybody else.
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AirBlue
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Post by AirBlue »

Doesnt PIA make profit on PAK-YYZ-PAK flights ? Thats twice weely
Moin
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Post by Moin »

No one get your hopes up. This could just be one of those flash-in-the-pan decisions they make that never materialise. God knows we've heard such outlandish statements like this before with nothing tangeable bearing fruit. We've been hearing since the last one year about them flying to LAX. What happened there? Rio? Would they have traffic for that route, and how would they fly there? If they fly to FCO via 2 stops, then here were talking South America. They end up there via 3 to 4 countries! Most of the countries they mention have in the recent past been visited by Musharraf, so maybe its Govt inducing them to fly to these places.

And yes, they right now do not have enough a/c to fly to these places and at the rate its taken them to decide on a Fokker replacement, we'll all have grey hair by the time these 35 more a/c join the fleet. Knowing PIA's modus operandi, I guess this is how it'll work out:

2005: Decision taken to add 35 more a/c to the fleet, including 4 more 777's in addition to the 8 already ordered.

2006: Both 777LR's are delivered and being flown to death. Still thinking about what to replace the Fokkers with. The 6 sold AB4's still sitting at KHI.

2007: Decides on a Fokker replacement. Calls for tenders and the turboprop manufacturers sigh and think "Here we go again". AB4's still sitting at KHI.

2008: First 777-300ER arrives amid great fanfare. Again its reiterated that more 777's will be added to the fleet. AB4's still sitting unclaimed at KHI.

2009: Fokker replacement shelved due to one reason or another and the manufacturers show them the middle finger. Fokkers in service now flying on band aids. Remainder 777-300's arrive and again its stated that more 777's will be ordered. AB4's still sitting at KHI.

2010: The 6 A310's lease expires and PIA decides to buy them. Major national enquiry is launched into investigating the 'transparency' of the whole deal. MNG takes delivery of AB4's only to discover they've half fallen apart and a major dispute arises which ends up in the courts and goes on for a good 5 years. The Fokkers are now at Gods mercy and another tender is issued for anything which flies on 2 turbo props. No one comes forward.

2011: PIA decides to retain the 74M's and some of the 743's for a few more years and spends millions of $ in refurbishing them. Issues another statement that more 777's will be added, but undecided as to which single aisle a/c to induct. Another major enquiry is launched questioning the necessity to refurbish the 74M's and 743's and the 'transparency' of the whole deal.

2012: PIA suddenly grounds the 74M's and offers them for sale. National Assembly in uproar as to why these symbols of our national heritage are being sold off to another country and that too for a throw away price!! A sucker comes along agreeing to buy them and then they sit at KHI awaiting the unfortunate new owner to take delivery of them. In the meanwhile they join the lineup of the 'currently in litigation' AB4's already sitting there.

2013: The 2 742's at LHE finally collapse under their own weight. Enquiry called to examine as to how such a thing could have happened and why they were not put to use. 74M's and AB4's sitting at KHI. PIA takes delivery of half a dozen 20 year old Fokkers from some banana republic airline and an enquiry is launched questioning the 'transparency' of the whole deal and how could PIA consider paying so much for so old an a/c. Statement issued that more 777's will be joining the fleet and single aisle a/c still being determined.

2014: PIA decides to induct three 25 year old A310F's from some airline and the price of each a/c is being negotiated. 74M's and AB4's still sitting at KHI.

2015: Price on A310F's still not decided, negotiations still going on. A few of the 743's are now grounded and put up for sale. National Assembly stages walkout and goes on hunger strike. The 743's join the 74M's and AB4's at KHI. Statement issued that more 777's will be inducted.

2016: Buyer approaches PIA for the 743's and price agreed upon and new owner pledges to take delivery soon. 74M's and AB4's still in KHI. Statement issued that more 777's are about to join the fleet and Boeing is scratching its head wondering what they hell they're talking about.

2017: Single aisle a/c still not decided and now the 733's are grounded and put up for sale. NA session ends up in several arrests and rape cases and a state of emergency being declared. Demonstraters stage a sit in outside JIAP and the PIA head office and the KHI press club. The now 24 year old 'recently inducted' Fokkers take over the 733 routes. 743's, 74M's and AB4's still sitting at KHI.

2018: Case of MNG v. PIA is decided and MNG granted compensation on the ground that they haul off the remains of the AB4's sitting in KHI. 743's and 74M's still sit there awaiting their fate.

2019: Buyer comes to take delivery of 74M's and discovers them to be pieces of junk ala AB4 and another case is filed in court. Statement issued that more 777's are just around the corner. 743's still sitting at KHI.

2020: With only Fokkers, A310's and 777's left and the A310F negotiations still going on, PIA announces once weekly flights to LAX via LHE, BKK, MNL, NRT, HNL on whats left of the remaining 743's and to Rio via DXB, IST, FRA, CDG and IAH on an A310. Grounded 743's still sitting at KHI.

2021: PIA announces 3rd daily flight to DXB nonstop on the Fokker. EK in the meanwhile is flying 6 daily A380's. Announcement that more 777's are on short finals.

2022: Rio flights suspended due to no traffic and LAX is upped to twice a week using the ex-Rio A310. Once a week flight to Glasgow is announced with an A310 from KHI via Faisalabad, LHE and ISB. 743's sitting in KHI.

2023: PIA agrees to buy 3 ex-UAL 777's now 30+ years old to suppliment its current 'ageing' 777's. Negotiations for the A310F's collapse, as do the 'under litigation' 74M's. 743's sitting at KHI narrowly 'escape disaster' from being damaged by the flying debris of the collapsed 74M's. 733's sitting awaiting buyer AKA some sucker.

2024: Sucker comes in the form of Aero Asia who agrees to take them and begins using them on domestic routes. PIA cries foul as all its Fokker traffic runs to Aero Asia and Govt slaps Aero Asia on the knuckles and restricts them to operating them on 'selected routes' only where PIA does not operate the Fokkers. 743's at KHI still.

2025: 74M litigation resolved and buyer is awarded the task of hauling away whats left of the 74M's.

2026: The 3 ex-UAL 777's arrive and enquiry launched into 'transparency' of the deal and air worthiness of such old a/c. National Assembly debates the reason for induction of such 'old' a/c whereas PIA could still have used the grounded 743's and 733's for 'several more years'. Buyer for 743's still missing.

2027: PIA refurbishes grounded 743's at several million $, puts them back into service and grounds the remaining flying 743's and puts those up for sale. Buyer for the first batch of grounded 743's turns up and demands to take delivery of a/c. PIA offers them the newly grounded 743's and another case is filed in the courts.

2028: I think by now you get the picture :roll:
Moin Abbasi
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atmalik
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Post by atmalik »

Moin, That is such an excellent insight into things that it is scary. Unfortunately thats how things get done in PIA, i guess at this rate we wont have an airline that lasts very long, plus no one would want to sell us ac's with such a credebility. Hopefully saner minds will prevail.
BTW sad as it is i think its is true and funny what you wrote.
nutsforplanes
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Post by nutsforplanes »

People! A bit more optimism here [-o< [-o< [-o<
Moin
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Post by Moin »

nutsforplanes: a bit of sense of humor here.
Moin Abbasi
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PakN'US
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Post by PakN'US »

That is why they call PIA "Please Inform Allah".
Just when you thought you were winning the rat race, along came faster rats!!!
Moin
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Post by Moin »

Theres also 'Perhaps I'll Arrive'. But in all seriousness, PIA does have one of the best pilots.
Moin Abbasi
nutsforplanes
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Post by nutsforplanes »

That is why they call PIA "Please Inform Allah".
Thats a new one for me. Maybe thats why their toilets are always a mess.
Everybody is performing "wudu".

It reminds me of a story narrated by my late father. Back in the late 60's or early 70's he was takinng a B707 haj flight to jeddah when a steward came rushing to the cockpit informing him that one of the toilets
was leaking.
When the F/E went to check he reported that one of the haji was actually taking a bath in the toilet. :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock:
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B777240ER
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Post by B777240ER »

AirBlue wrote:Doesnt PIA make profit on PAK-YYZ-PAK flights ? Thats twice weely
Pakistani's living in YYZ compared to Madrid/Barcelona, Rio etc
CoyBoy
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Post by CoyBoy »

In the early 90's PIA was considering flying to Caracas(Venezuela) via Damascus to cater to the Syrian community there.

They also plan to increase frequency to Urumqi to thrice a week all with A310.
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AirBlue
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Post by AirBlue »

Oh ok thanks B777240ER, i do agree on that .... but hey, for example PIA goes for Australia, they can do PAK-SYD-MEL-PAK or if there is about 70% load in SYD then they can make it the way old YYZ route used to be, which comes to PAK-SYD-MEL-SYD-PAK.....what if such a flight is done once or twice a week with a B743? Lets say making it PAK-SIN-AU-SIN-PAK?
F.K
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Post by F.K »

moin ur wit always has me on the ground.however i feel that pia is now being headed by a man who is bent to turn it around. the process that he has put forth will be impelled on time given how he has been sharp and deft in responding to fare prices in the industry. he works with a plan and vision which is crucial to a corporations sycsess and gives it a sense of direction. i see pia leasing 310 f aircraft within two years 2008 to replace the 74ms and the 4 extra 777s to replace the 743 fleet by 2011. also newer variants of the 737 are being looked in to in place of pias 733s which too are due to retire by 2010-11. knowing that pia will not be able to sustain the loan to pay up, he draw in the governments help to finance and broker all the deals. i guess pias glory is all set to be revived , but the chairmans emphasis is more on flight services and marketting that forms the cornerstone of any airlines profitability. hopefully my mom will be heading one of those depts. if all goes as planned
F.K
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Post by behramjee »

Hi,

First of all FK if u dont mind I would like to meet your mother and u and whomever else working for PIA in KHI as I will be in town from Nov 10-23. Just a casual discussion on PIA and what it should and it shouldnt do etc...u know the usual 8)

Ok now as far as this announcement goes concerning future expansion of PIA's route network :

GLA : Starting this winter

LAX : Starting next spring

JNB : 50-50 for next year via NBO...hopefully not KHI-DXB-NBO-JNB :roll:

GIG : Keep dreaming...whomever thought of this obviously had a lot to drink :wink:

SYD : Not feasiable when competition from KHI is EK-TG-CX-MH !!!

PVG : Extension to LAX...KHI-PVG-LAX

CAI : Not needed

DAM : Syrian Air already flies DAM-DMM-KHI with B 747SP twice a week

BAG : Not viable in the short term

IST : PIA has 5th freedom rights for IST-YYZ...on its own IST will not work.

ZRH : PIA has open skies with Switzerland and 5th freedom trans-atlantic rights from ZRH to USA. On its own ZRH is not worth it!!!

ICN : Can work if flights are routed via BKK with 5th freedom rights only. I have worked for CX in KHI and we get lots of pax for ICN but mainly ship crew and labor workers.

BCN : Expected to start within 3 months...rumored KHI-DXB-BCN twice a week with A 310-300s.
GLAGAZ
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Post by GLAGAZ »

PIA were supposedly sniffing around GLA a few months back asking about 777 landing/parking fees etc. Could PIA use GLA for transatlantic ops?

Gaz