New PIA YYZ rumor

[behramjee]

Hi,

I have just returned from the local PIA office and I have been told that from October, PIA will be flying KHI-LHE-YYZ and KHI-ISB-YYZ thus getting rid of the MAN stopover enroute to YYZ.

Also the bigger sccop is that upon delivery of the two -200LRs in January and March 2006, PIA will be upgrading YYZ to a 3 weekly operation with the B 777s with LHE getting the extra frequency from KHI...does this mean that the Canada-Pakistan aviation bilateral treaty has been amended to allow further expansion of Pakistani carriers to Canada.

[basit_s]

PIA should fly to Vancouver.

[PIAinORD]

Hi,

I have just returned from the local PIA office and I have been told that from October, PIA will be flying KHI-LHE-YYZ and KHI-ISB-YYZ thus getting rid of the MAN stopover enroute to YYZ.

Also the bigger sccop is that upon delivery of the two -200LRs in January and March 2006, PIA will be upgrading YYZ to a 3 weekly operation with the B 777s with LHE getting the extra frequency from KHI...does this mean that the Canada-Pakistan aviation bilateral treaty has been amended to allow further expansion of Pakistani carriers to Canada.

Behram, are they going to use the 772ER's for this? And if there are, wouldn't there be a significant payload penalty?

[behramjee]

PIA should fly to Vancouver.

They should not and dont need to...only 25,000 Pakistanis in YVR where as there are close to 300,000 Indians there thus warranting Air India or Jet Airways to fly the route and not PIA.

I have no clue if the LRs or the ERs will be used for the YYZ nonstops.

[PK]

behramjee ....

don't you think there is a need for PIA flights to western Canada, there are lots of Pakistanies in calgary and in Vancouver and few in Edmonton. The Seatle has sizeable pakistani community.

Lots of sikh population in Vancouver ....anpther plus point if routed via china, big chunk of chinese polulation there, it can work pretty well if PIA fares are below the other carriers ?

isn't it?

[behramjee]

behramjee ....

don't you think there is a need for PIA flights to western Canada, there are lots of Pakistanies in calgary and in Vancouver and few in Edmonton. The Seatle has sizeable pakistani community.

There are more Pakistanis in places such as LAX, SFO, SYD, JNB etc than there are in YVR, SEA, YYC etc and yet those places dont see PIA flights nor do they need any with the exception of LAX.

Just because there are 20-25,000 expat Pakistanis in a city, it doesnt warrant PIA flying there. Also these people in Western Canada are mainly immigrants from the Punjab area (LHE) and therefore from next year or even from this Oct, they only need to fly AC/WJ to YYZ and then nonstop to LHE so a convenient one stop flight W CAN-YYZ-LHE instead of wasting $$$ by flying extra weekly flights to YVR.

As far the Sikh traffic goes, PIA doesnt carry any Indian passengers on its YYZ flights as its too costly...I dont know if it does from JFK or ORD but I feel the same situation persists there too...PIA doesnt have good connections to India from North America and vice versa + v expensive fares compared to competition thus proving to be an unattractive options for Indians.

The Sikhs fly to LHE on PIA for their Yatra and other festivals etc.

[Amaad Lone]

The PIA schedule uptill Deceember 2005 shows the Toronto flight via Manchaster.

Maybe PIA will stop carrying Manchaster passengers on the Toronto flight, and strictly use it as a technical stopover.

Unless the non-stop Toronto flight will be used for crew training for the polar route.

Just guessing. Maybe AN can confirm or deny the rumor.

[Moin]

What they should do is simply add one more nonstop flight to YYZ once the LR's arrive. They have 2 flights a week now, so a third should be added which should be a nonstop service.

[smarties]

I don't think it is possible to fly non-stop with a full payload on the LHE-YYZ sector like PIAinORD has suggested on the 772ER. PIA staff don't know much anyway, they are always wrong.

There won't be any non-stop flights to US/Canada at least till next year when the 777LRs are introduced.

[PIAinORD]

I don't think it is possible to fly non-stop with a full payload on the LHE-YYZ sector like PIAinORD has suggested on the 772ER. PIA staff don't know much anyway, they are always wrong.

There won't be any non-stop flights to US/Canada at least till next year when the 777LRs are introduced.

Well according to A.net, the 263 Tonne MTOW B772ER has a range of 6,000 NM, with the 282 MTOW B772ER has a range of 7,730 NM. I'm assuming PIA's T7's are the first version, so I doubt they'd be able to make it that far or they would've done it already. FYI YYZ-LHE is 7,003 NM (easily done by the second variant that American/Continental Airlines will be using on their DEL flights).

I don't know what PIA's October plans are, but they might be eliminating the stop over and changing to Shannon because of the whole transit visa deal. Any other thoughts?

[smarties]

PIAinORD, i think even if PIA had the second version of the 777ER, they would struggle in the winter months on the LHE-YYZ sector due to the strong headwinds.

I didn't know AA were planning on using 777s to YYZ. I think they would even have payload restrictions on that route.

[CoyBoy]

behramjee then why are PIA flying direct to Oslo to cater to the 30,000 Pakistani's there when they can catch a PIA flight from anywhere in Europe?

YVR could be served with an A310 via a Chinese city.

[smarties]

Coyboy- I don't think an A310 could fly non-stop China-YVR. It would have to be a B777 to fly that sector.

[B777240ER]

Maybe PIA will stop carrying Manchaster passengers on the Toronto flight, and strictly use it as a technical stopover.

I don't think PK had those rights anyway due to BD

[CoyBoy]

China Eastern used to fly their A310-300 to YVR non-stop from Shanghai in the 90's.