PIA Lahore to Karachi Airbus A320 Flight Crashes

[awasi]

From the videos above and earlier information it is clear that there were issues much earlier than the landing stage of the journey. When did they reach their top of descent and why was it at 10,000 ft so late in the descent?

Question is why was the approach not stable ? What distracted the crew that they were way above the normal altitude for a stable approach and ILS intercept ? There are plenty of questions and all angles need to be evaluated vs just blaming the pilot which is happening all over the social, print and TV media.

[Abbas Ali]

According to news sources:

French investigating today also visited Karachi Air Traffic Control, Radar Control and also observed air traffic control procedures for landing and departing aircraft.

Air traffic controller also interviewed by the French team.

Abbas

[Shaheer]

Bring a layman, my observation on the sad incident

- a narrative is being built in the media to pin the blame on the pilots

- partial ATC communication recordings are leaked to support a specific (above) narrative

- PCAA & new PIA management is as incompetent, as its predecessors were when handling these situations

- Investigation board's conflict-of-interest is established by Sindh govt so any report from this board, however correct and impartial, would be controversial



If we are interested in taking the right step and moving into the right direction, a proper investigation including the civil & military aviation investigators, aviation engineers, pilots, traffic controllers, and psychologist should be constituted and appropriate actions should be taken based on this investigation

[oozeman64]

This much info can't give us a conclusion, one that is probable.

There must've been something going on in the cockpit that distracted the crew and led to a very late and unstable approach, right?

If there wasn't, then it's just sheer unprofessionalism by the flight deck crew.

Also, reports on news say that the ATC controller has stated that he did try to get the aircraft onto a stable descent profile, but the pilots had simply refused? It all doesn't add up.
I think as time goes on, we will find what happened via the help of CVR and FDR.
If nothing of significance or alarm was going on in the cockpit, then the handling of the aircraft by the crew which would've led to the crash is beyond my understanding.

[Zulfiqar]

This much info can't give us a conclusion, one that is probable.
There must've been something going on in the cockpit that distracted the crew and led to a very late and unstable approach, right?
If there wasn't, then it's just sheer unprofessionalism by the flight deck crew.
Also, reports on news say that the ATC controller has stated that he did try to get the aircraft onto a stable descent profile, but the pilots had simply refused? It all doesn't add up.
I think as time goes on, we will find what happened via the help of CVR and FDR.
If nothing of significance or alarm was going on in the cockpit, then the handling of the aircraft by the crew which would've led to the crash is beyond my understanding.

It seems that ATC was not aware of a problem if there was one, the communication was on the whole 'calm', emergency was not declared at the airport. I think there were issues at multiple well, biggest of all lapses in communication between many individual.
Did the survivors mention any emergency (brace/ brace) announcement? (or perhaps it was all too sudden).

[Inam855]

I thought I'd share this interesting info (cross posting from elsewhere)



I believe the crew would never have received a TOO LOW GEAR warning during the first approach; they would have received TOO LOW TERRAIN instead (or another mode if that would have priority). I can see how a crew would discard the latter GPWS warning as being erroneous/nuisance when approaching a runway in VMC, especially a crew that had already lost their situational awareness due to extreme (probably self-induced) tunnel-vision.

Perhaps learned forum members (@Flyer1015 and others) can discuss.

[Shershah Ahmed]

Bring a layman, my observation on the sad incident

- a narrative is being built in the media to pin the blame on the pilots

- partial ATC communication recordings are leaked to support a specific (above) narrative

- PCAA & new PIA management is as incompetent, as its predecessors were when handling these situations

- Investigation board's conflict-of-interest is established by Sindh govt so any report from this board, however correct and impartial, would be controversial



If we are interested in taking the right step and moving into the right direction, a proper investigation including the civil & military aviation investigators, aviation engineers, pilots, traffic controllers, and psychologist should be constituted and appropriate actions should be taken based on this investigation

I agree. Sadly the narrative has already been built and is flourishing. Regardless of whether the investigation finds the root cause of the crash or not (being human error or otherwise), the fact that the investigation team consisting entirely of Air Force personnel will be investigating an airline crash who has an Air Force officer as CEO is entirely laughable. Any and all assurances given about the investigation being 'impartial' and 'free and fair' are completely weightless.

Not to mention the unethical leaking of ATC recordings within an hour of the crash, narratives being built before the fires stopped burning, and every so called 'aviation expert' appearing on our useless media channels claiming they know the ultimate truth of the crash. Yes, there's a reason why the human element is cause for 70% or more of crashes, yes that approach was unstable regardless of how many people parrot the same FlightRadar information, but there is still a chunk of missing information.

[Abbas Ali]

Compensation of PKR 500,000/- to be paid to each crash survivor.

Compensation for legal heirs of air crash victims:

PKR 500,000/- increased to PKR 1,000,000/- to be paid for funeral/burial expenses for each person who died.

Compensation of PKR 5,000,000/- to be paid by the airline for each passenger who died.

Compensation of PKR 1,000/- per kilogram of destroyed/lost baggage to be paid by the airline.

Insurance mentioned on ticket also to be paid.

Abbas

[Abbas Ali]

PIA Press Release

Karachi, 27 May 2020: Identification and handing over of bodies on the basis of DNA tests begins. PIA spokesman said on Wednesday. He said that so far, 47 bodies have been identified out of which 43 have been handed over to the families of deceased for burial. He said that CEO PIA Air Marshal Arshad Malik is in personal contact with the family members of the deceased and has contacted them.

CEO PIA expressed his condolences with the family members and assured of all possible support and assistance at this time of grief.

CEO PIA also inquired about the assistance being provided by PIA officials and based on the feedback has formed a one window operation for swift coordination between various authorities for speedy identification and handing over of bodies, including issuance of Death Certificates .

PIA spokesman said that on Wednesday 01 body of deceased Khalid Sherdil was handed over for burial .

The airline is making travel arrangements for the family members of the deceased and providing them domestic and international tickets and is arranging transportation of the bodies to their homes.

He said that the process of DNA testing and verification is a lengthy process and requires time. However, PIA and concerned Authorities are doing all efforts to hand over the bodies of the deceased to their family members.

PIA spokesman said that an independent inquiry is being conducted by Aircraft Accident Investigation Board and work has already started by the Board.

He said that reaching conclusions based on hearsay and political statements is not only unfair but hurts the sentiments of the families of the deceased, the employees of airline and Pakistani citizens .

Source: PIA Press Release

[H Khan]

Compensation of PKR 500,000/- to be paid to each crash survivor.

Compensation for legal heirs of air crash victims:

PKR 500,000/- increased to PKR 1,000,000/- to be paid for funeral/burial expenses for each person who died.

Compensation of PKR 5,000,000/- to be paid by the airline for each passenger who died.

Compensation of PKR 1,000/- per kilogram of destroyed/lost baggage to be paid by the airline.

Insurance mentioned on ticket also to be paid.

Abbas

According to Warsaw and Montreal conventions the minimum compensations are between $16,500~$25,000 or $250,000

Personally I would suggest the deceased next to kens to wait till the outcome of the investigation and there after file a law suite (inidividual would be suggested) against the guilty parites. A note one cannot suie the air crew or ather staff memebrs but in this case PIA and CAA, or Airbus

[Abbas Ali]

Warsaw and Montreal Conventions are for international flights.

Abbas

[oozeman64]

Not to mention the unethical leaking of ATC recordings within an hour of the crash

The ATC recordings weren't leaked. They were available to all public at Liveatc.net

[Shershah Ahmed]

Not to mention the unethical leaking of ATC recordings within an hour of the crash

The ATC recordings weren't leaked. They were available to all public at Liveatc.net

My mistake.

[arshad.altaf]

A retired PIA captain (Cap Aijaz Haroon) was heard saying amongst other things tonight that under the same “director flight safety” three crashes have occurred yet he remains firmly posted on the same position. He also mentioned that as a matter of fact after retirement he was given an immediate extension.

Arshad

[faisal-777]

Bring a layman, my observation on the sad incident

- a narrative is being built in the media to pin the blame on the pilots

- partial ATC communication recordings are leaked to support a specific (above) narrative

- PCAA & new PIA management is as incompetent, as its predecessors were when handling these situations

- Investigation board's conflict-of-interest is established by Sindh govt so any report from this board, however correct and impartial, would be controversial



If we are interested in taking the right step and moving into the right direction, a proper investigation including the civil & military aviation investigators, aviation engineers, pilots, traffic controllers, and psychologist should be constituted and appropriate actions should be taken based on this investigation

I agree. Sadly the narrative has already been built and is flourishing. Regardless of whether the investigation finds the root cause of the crash or not (being human error or otherwise), the fact that the investigation team consisting entirely of Air Force personnel will be investigating an airline crash who has an Air Force officer as CEO is entirely laughable. Any and all assurances given about the investigation being 'impartial' and 'free and fair' are completely weightless.

Not to mention the unethical leaking of ATC recordings within an hour of the crash, narratives being built before the fires stopped burning, and every so called 'aviation expert' appearing on our useless media channels claiming they know the ultimate truth of the crash. Yes, there's a reason why the human element is cause for 70% or more of crashes, yes that approach was unstable regardless of how many people parrot the same FlightRadar information, but there is still a chunk of missing information.

What is really unethical about the ATC recordings circulating? It is from liveATC probably. And at this site the feed for Karachi has one source which is switching between ground/approach/area control. No one has tried to manipulate anything here.