PIA to buy 29 more aircrafts.

F.K · Post by **F.K** » Wed Jan 18, 2006 6:39 pm

so in a nutshell JAL ,CX even KLM which i dint know about use 742s are as old or new as pias 743s. if they re still in service with airlines that can buy off pia a hundred times over then pia should act in line with its financial reality before going on another mindless shopping spree. if airchina offers its jumbos for sale depending on the utilization pia should be the first to get their hands on them. i doubt that airfrance would put their 742s up for grabs given that they work all year round and not just for island jaunts. JAL has no intention of phasing out its freighters, they ll continue to use a mixed 747 fleet .infact if i m not wrong they even have 742s in pax versions. pia should keep its eyes open for any of these airlines to put up their 747s for sale and get them ready before the summer season. i dont think that any of these airlines would let go of their 744 freighters after holding on to the classics so long and still are , so pia which is totally dwarfed in front of them size wise has no justification to spend more then 40 million a pieace for a used 744 when the same capacity is available at less then one fourth the price. more importantly many of these upscale airlines already had 744s flying in pax configuration making the shift to freighters rationale where as pia would have to develop a whole new inventory for the new variant with taxing training costs of pilots ,along with a huge price. a few days ago there was an article on the same issue in the dawn in which the writer mentioned the same thing that with skyrocketing fuel prices airlines should put all their orders on whole cus the cost of investment is so huge that it would take an aeon before the upsides are realized and translate in to any quantifiable net benefit.
the a330/300
ould have been the best bet, this is what i was harping about when the 310s were purchased. if that deal hadnt been struck for quick kickbacks today the ground would have been fertile for the purchase of 330 freighters and pax version .

behramjee · Post by **behramjee** » Wed Jan 18, 2006 6:57 pm

Some of these B787 should be the -300 version. This a perfect replacement for A300

Yes that is a good idea especially for high density India, Saudi Arabia, DXB, AUH and BKK routes.

do you see any place for PIA to convert 2 or 3 of it's 747-300s to F configuration?

No I dont as PIA doesnt need B 747Fs...the biggest freighter that they need would be in the B 763F/MD 11 range of 70-80 tonnes max.

Most probably, PIA have a pair of four slots (arrival and departure, each) at NRT. They are only using two pairs for the ISB-PEK-NRT flights. The other two used to be used for KHI-SE Asia-NRT,t this service was later discontinued. I suspect PIA never relinquished those slots and know wants to restart this service, this time via BKK.

I dont know exactly how the "Airport slots" game works but according to my understanding you pay for slots so what youre trying to say is that PIA has been wasting money for all these years by keeping these 2 unused NRT slots without even considering to rent them for a short term to another airline.

But then again NRT Airport authorities are not fools...they know airlines are willing to pay hefty premiums for NRT slots and wouldnt allow any airline except for JAL or ANA to just keep slots at NRT without properly using them...that too for 5 years!!!

What might happen is that since PEK can handle itself, the 2 weekly NRT flights might be routed ISB-BKK-NRT A 310s twice a week to compete more effectively against TG-Thai Airways on the ISB-East Asia-ISB route.

As far as A310 replacement, they should go for 787s, as they already have 777s and they will have cockpit commonality and because they are availabe in 200 and 250 seater versions, where as A350s are available in the 250-300 seat range, which is too much for most PIA routes.

Precisely...100% spot on !!!

I agree with the above except for the 9 737-700s. I think a good case can be made for the A319/A320/A321. For routes of ~ 3.5 hours or less, the A320s series is definately cheaper to operate.

I chose the B 737NGs ahead of the A 320 family because its easier for the pilots-cabin crew-engineering and maintainence ppl of PIA to go from B 737 Classics to B 737NGs rather than to a totally new aircraft model i.e. A 320. However the A 319-320 is not a bad idea too as ED too have it which can lead in the future to a joint maintainence agreement/venture between the 2 airlines.

PIA should use these single aisle jets to setup an extensive hub operation at KHI, allowing convenient connections from KWI, DXB, AUH, MCT, etc. to DEL, BOM, MAA, Cochin, etc. Because most of these routes ex-KHI are relatively short (3 hours max), I would have to go with the A320 series, but PIA should look at the offers from both manufacturers before making a final decision.

B 737s are too small to fly from KHI to BOM and DEL where demand is very high and needs a minimum A 310 aircraft size flying on this route. For cities in the future such as COK-MAA etc, yes a B 737 / A 320 is fine but definitely not for BOM and DEL from KHI !!!

Amaad Lone · Post by **Amaad Lone** » Wed Jan 18, 2006 7:26 pm

No I dont as PIA doesnt need B 747Fs...the biggest freighter that they need would be in the B 763F/MD 11 range of 70-80 tonnes max.

Behramjee the payload of an MD-11F is not 70-80 tons, but 100 tons, the same as a 747-200F.

I guess you don't learn everything at a summer internship at CX.

behramjee · Post by **behramjee** » Wed Jan 18, 2006 7:57 pm

I guess you don't learn everything at a summer internship at CX.

CX never had MD 11s for me to learn much about them...but I recall reading that a MD 11F carries 85 tonnes cargo payload and not 100...

The MD-11F can carry more than 90 tons of payload on nonstop flights exceeding 4,300 nautical miles (6,900 km) or will accommodate more than 100 tons maximum payload on shorter routes

http://www.boeing.com/news/releases/199 ... 0922c.html

when u repaint an aircraft it gains weight hence payload is reduced and since MD11Fs are more suited for long haul cargo flights the 85 tonne payload applies. all md 11s are avbl in used condition only hence heavy re-painting from one airline to another.

Adnan Anwar · Post by **Adnan Anwar** » Wed Jan 18, 2006 8:11 pm

Come guys refrain from attacks please, thats all I am saying. I love it when a thread keeps growing with more friendly assumptions/arguments.

Now for fun sake, try the online lbs to Metric Ton converter.

http://www.metric-conversion.net/conver ... etric).htm

Happy conversions for future refrences.

behramjee · Post by **behramjee** » Wed Jan 18, 2006 8:51 pm

no one is attacking anybody...dont worry

Ammad means no harm and nor do I...we're just stating certain facts.

CoyBoy · Post by **CoyBoy** » Fri Jan 20, 2006 7:59 pm

EK Cargo launched DXB-GOT-JFK service in 2003 and they still use the 742 there and elsewhere.

http://www.skycargo.com/ournetwork/sche ... hedule.asp

Adnan Anwar · Post by **Adnan Anwar** » Fri Jan 20, 2006 9:00 pm

CoyBoy wrote:EK Cargo launched DXB-GOT-JFK service in 2003 and they still use the 742 there and elsewhere.

http://www.skycargo.com/ournetwork/sche ... hedule.asp

Airliners, myAviation has no pictures of any 747-200 Cargo in Emirates colors except this Atlas Jet 747-400 operating for Emirates Sky Cargo. I guess thats why the schedule that CoyBoy found has 742 mentioned in it for certain times. But the aircraft is not 747-200.

http://www.airliners.net/open.file/976905/M/

CoyBoy · Post by **CoyBoy** » Sat Jan 21, 2006 6:19 pm

The 742's operated for EK never got painted in the airlines livery, DXB-GOT-JFK was definitely launched with a 742 in 2003.

Kashif · Post by **Kashif** » Mon Jan 23, 2006 4:04 pm

With PakistanÃƒâ€šÃ‚Â´s export and import increasing and higher fuel prices, shouldnÃƒâ€šÃ‚Â´t PIA just get 2-3 777F for PIA Cargo? I guess they use a lot less fuel than MD-11F. They will have fleet commonaility with the rest of piaÃƒâ€šÃ‚Â´s 777 fleet. I also bet PIA can get a really good price on 777F since not so many are sold yet.