Yes, it is not a part of the PPL/CPL curriculum but although it is definitely a part of the FITS curriculum, yet most of the flying schools in Pakistan don't teach it.aj357 wrote: none of the pilots/instructors trained in our flying clubs know how to deal with a spin because it is not part of the curriculum.
Hybrid Aviation Cessna Crashes in Lahore
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Re: Hybrid Aviation Cessna Crashes in Lahore
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Re: Hybrid Aviation Cessna Crashes in Lahore
i very much remember flying this aircraft back in August 2011,Ive done a few hour for my ppl in England,and when i came back to pak for vacation,I went on for flying to Walton for a day i was highly disappointed with the conditions of the air crafts there compared to the air crafts ive previously flown,the condition of BCS was so poor that i noted, that in the mid air my door got opened, few miniiutes later after completing the first circuit when I took off again the the altimeter was shaking up and down showing about 100-200 ft difference though the air craft was in the very much stable ,i asked my instructer why is was happening he clearly took it as a joke and said there's nothing wrong with that..its just ''thermal'' that your not use too.Through out the yoke wasn't that responsive at all.After that I never went there.But I remember a few people in shalwar kameez were calld with big desi hammers to fix the door when we landed,i think the aircraft was too poorly maintained through out.
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Re: Hybrid Aviation Cessna Crashes in Lahore
The tragic event forbids me to use the word 'amused', yet I am bewildered by the bombardment of various phrases by experts to describe the (still un determined) cause(s) of crash which tragically took the life of two young people who had dreamt of (like many) and persuing (like a lucky few) the cherished profesion of flying.
Speculating on the cause of a crash is but natural and curosity to know what happened is obvious. Yet with limited or no information of the circumstances, events, above all basic knowledge of the subject and understanding of various aeronautical phenomenon results in the bombardment of opinions like flat spin, hammer stall, carburator icing, glide ratios, and so on.
Just like the Airblue crash, here too we have a free for all speculative determination of what happened. One cannot object to and should not do so because its an open forum and one is at liberty to air his or her views, but it atleast reveals the knowledge (or lack thereof) of the author.
Speculating on the cause of a crash is but natural and curosity to know what happened is obvious. Yet with limited or no information of the circumstances, events, above all basic knowledge of the subject and understanding of various aeronautical phenomenon results in the bombardment of opinions like flat spin, hammer stall, carburator icing, glide ratios, and so on.
Just like the Airblue crash, here too we have a free for all speculative determination of what happened. One cannot object to and should not do so because its an open forum and one is at liberty to air his or her views, but it atleast reveals the knowledge (or lack thereof) of the author.
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Re: Hybrid Aviation Cessna Crashes in Lahore
According to following news report, the crashed aircraft had fuel for another 10 minutes of flight.
Samples of recovered fuel will also need to undergo lab tests because contaminated fuel can also make engine stop working and cause accidents.
Samples of recovered fuel will also need to undergo lab tests because contaminated fuel can also make engine stop working and cause accidents.
AbbasCAA team visits plane crash site
LAHORE, Feb 24: A joint investigation launched by senior Civil Aviation experts from Karachi and police took on Friday some remains of the crashed plane for forensic analysis to ascertain the cause of the crash.
A police official told Dawn a team of CAA experts along with local senior police officers visited the Model Town house where the two-seater light plane had crashed on Thursday and examined the site.
The seven-member CAA team is headed by Squadron Leader Khwaja Abdul Majeed.
Model Town Circle DSP Shahzada Saleem who assisted the visiting officials said the wreckage of the crashed plane had been removed from the house after a thorough examination of the site.
He said the experts had found fuel in the plane tank which was sufficient for another 10 minutes flight which meant that the shortage of fuel was not the cause of the crash.
Mr Saleem said the forensic analysis would help ascertain the exact cause of the crash.
He said the police would conclude its investigation in the light of CAA findings.
Meanwhile, initial findings of autopsies performed on the bodies of Capt Anita Qureshi and trainee Waqar Asif suggest that both died of multiple bone fractures.The experts who performed autopsies at Jinnah Hospital were astonished to know that the bodies carried no burn injuries despite the fact that the plane crashed from a considerable height.
A senior doctor said both the pilot and her trainee suffered multiple bone fractures, particularly on the heads, which might be the cause of their immediate death.
The bodies of both the pilots were handed over to their relatives after autopsy, he said.
Source: DAWN
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Re: Hybrid Aviation Cessna Crashes in Lahore
Abbas Ali wrote:......CAA team visits plane crash site
LAHORE, Feb 24:
He said the experts had found fuel in the plane tank which was sufficient for another 10 minutes flight which meant that the shortage of fuel was not the cause of the crash.
With the wings smashed, I do not how they could determine the anount of fuel still in the tanks. Or they were estimating the fuel qty based on total fuel uploaded minus the fuel consumed during duration fo flight.
If we believe what the 'experts' say, at a nominal fuel flow of 10 gph (in the circuit), 10 minute of fuel means mere 7.5 litres (simple arithmatics FF/6 x 4.5). Whether the 'experts' are taking into account the unuseable fuel (5 litres for 152). Now 7.5 or 12.5 (10 mins + 5 litres unuseable) litre in the 147 litre tanks means that the engine can be starved of fuel at high bank angles, which is not un common during circuit work.
Mr Saleem said the forensic analysis would help ascertain the exact cause of the crash.
Forensic analysis of what?
He said the police would conclude its investigation in the light of CAA findings.
WHat has police to do with this?
The experts who performed autopsies at Jinnah Hospital were astonished to know that the bodies carried no burn injuries despite the fact that the plane crashed from a considerable height.
Why astonished, since the aircraft did not catch fire in air or after impact, it is obvious that the bodies would too not show any signs of burns!
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Re: Hybrid Aviation Cessna Crashes in Lahore
Mr. Tailwind,
What you are saying makes sense to me.
Haroon
What you are saying makes sense to me.
Haroon
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Re: Hybrid Aviation Cessna Crashes in Lahore
According to Geo News, preliminary investigation report has been released.
However, following three main points of preliminary investigation report mentioned by the news channel do not clarify cause of the accident.
* During that ill-fated training flight, Hybrid Aviation Cessna 150D (AP-BCS) successfully completed six training circuits before crashing into ground.
* 30 seconds before the accident, the last contact made by AP-BCS was with another aircraft on training flight circuit.
* The student pilot Waqar was not cleared for solo flight.
Btw, is it possible for Cessna 150 pilots to judge fuel quantity in case of inoperative fuel gauges or inoperative fuel low level warning lights?
Abbas
However, following three main points of preliminary investigation report mentioned by the news channel do not clarify cause of the accident.
* During that ill-fated training flight, Hybrid Aviation Cessna 150D (AP-BCS) successfully completed six training circuits before crashing into ground.
* 30 seconds before the accident, the last contact made by AP-BCS was with another aircraft on training flight circuit.
* The student pilot Waqar was not cleared for solo flight.
Btw, is it possible for Cessna 150 pilots to judge fuel quantity in case of inoperative fuel gauges or inoperative fuel low level warning lights?
Abbas
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Re: Hybrid Aviation Cessna Crashes in Lahore
According to following news report, the ill-fated Hybrid Aviation Cessna 150D (AP-BCS) was built in year 1965.
Most likely it was imported and registered in Pakistan as AP-BCS in or around year 1986.

Source: jang.com.pk
Abbas
Most likely it was imported and registered in Pakistan as AP-BCS in or around year 1986.

Source: jang.com.pk
Abbas
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Re: Hybrid Aviation Cessna Crashes in Lahore
The news report above does say that aircraft was airworthy. Does it mean that it was pilot error as I read somewhere that there is a chance that the pilot was unable to recover the aircraft from simulated emergency situation?
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Re: Hybrid Aviation Cessna Crashes in Lahore
Abbas Ali wrote:
Btw, is it possible for Cessna 150 pilots to judge fuel quantity in case of inoperative fuel gauges or inoperative fuel low level warning lights?
Abbas
Yes. The pilot is supposed to open the fuel tank and physically inspect it prior to start-up. It is part of the ext. 360 checks.
Aeroperú Flight 603 Crashed due to duct tape covering the static ports. The pilot did not conduct a Visual inspection or walk around which is a final airworthiness check.
But like i have said before IMHO AP-BCS doesnt look like it crashed due to fuel starvation. Even if it had run out of fuel there is no reason why it would nose dive flying in the circuit.
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Re: Hybrid Aviation Cessna Crashes in Lahore
Like iv mentioned before this looks like a stall recovery gone wrong to me. Because all such maneuvers are practiced flying overhead model town park while flying in walton circuit. and the crash sight is not far from there.ahsan22 wrote:The news report above does say that aircraft was airworthy. Does it mean that it was pilot error as I read somewhere that there is a chance that the pilot was unable to recover the aircraft from simulated emergency situation?
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Re: Hybrid Aviation Cessna Crashes in Lahore
Do you mean that the instructor was giving training for stall recovery during the 7th circuit? what is the norm of training flight, any pre-flight briefing written or oral prior to flight? Can the authorities get any clue from such pre-flight breifings?
aj357 wrote:Like iv mentioned before this looks like a stall recovery gone wrong to me. Because all such maneuvers are practiced flying overhead model town park while flying in walton circuit. and the crash sight is not far from there.ahsan22 wrote:The news report above does say that aircraft was airworthy. Does it mean that it was pilot error as I read somewhere that there is a chance that the pilot was unable to recover the aircraft from simulated emergency situation?
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Re: Hybrid Aviation Cessna Crashes in Lahore
Does anyone know about the inspection report of Hybrid Aviation Cessna Crashes in Lahore?
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Re: Hybrid Aviation Cessna Crashes in Lahore
According to excerpts of preliminary investigation report on Dunya News channel:
* The aircraft did not face any problem related to fuel.
* Aircraft pilot(s) was/were calm and did not indicate any problem in last communication 30 seconds before the accident.
* The aircraft crashed on 7th circuit after having completed six circuits.
Abbas
* The aircraft did not face any problem related to fuel.
* Aircraft pilot(s) was/were calm and did not indicate any problem in last communication 30 seconds before the accident.
* The aircraft crashed on 7th circuit after having completed six circuits.
Abbas
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Re: Hybrid Aviation Cessna Crashes in Lahore
Yes it is possible that they were practicing a stall recovery during the 7th circuit. it usually takes less than a minute in a cessna 150 to do so.raihans wrote:Do you mean that the instructor was giving training for stall recovery during the 7th circuit? what is the norm of training flight, any pre-flight briefing written or oral prior to flight? Can the authorities get any clue from such pre-flight breifings?
aj357 wrote:Like iv mentioned before this looks like a stall recovery gone wrong to me. Because all such maneuvers are practiced flying overhead model town park while flying in walton circuit. and the crash sight is not far from there.ahsan22 wrote:The news report above does say that aircraft was airworthy. Does it mean that it was pilot error as I read somewhere that there is a chance that the pilot was unable to recover the aircraft from simulated emergency situation?
There is usually a pre-flight briefing prior to practicing something the student hasnt done before. There is no pre-flight briefing before a G.F (general flying) mission where we mainly practice touch and go's in different landing configurations, steep turns and stall recovery etc within the circuit. And this was a G.F sortie.