PIA faces equity crunch

[B777240ER]

PIA can make Karachi into a hub if they want to, but ISB and LHE are better because they are limited.

If the aircraft is flying KHI - LHE/ISB - EU/CAN/US half full, then PK needs to time domestic flights so that passengers can connect onwards. PIA also need to consider whether it is worthwhile moving the plane to the domestic terminal from international for a domestic flight so passengers originating from ISB/LHE can board.

Unfortunately PK has a poor marketing department.

I think PK should have bought the B777 over the A340. Yes, financially they may have trouble financing them but they are earning revenues and saving on costs. I would have preferred A332 because less seats are more easier to fill and PK can introduce more flights. Yes they are too small some routes, but great for others. I can see PK ordering 787-300/800 as A332 is old now but when the decision was made...

I doubt that EK will manage PK, mainly because of the Pak government and Pakistan is a important market for PK. They will not want to loose thier customers.

BTW whats MNA/MPA?

Also PK ordered the B777 in 2002 when US economy was in a bad state after 9/11 so I'd imagine they got a good discount.

AC may start KHI next year via DXB but passengers may still prefer the non-stop route.

I don't think the B787 was available when PK ordered its B777's.

The B777 will not be of a liability because ED is only allowed 8 flights per week to UK whilst for PK it is unlimited (excluding LHR/LGW).

How many routes do PK operate because of government pressure? What about the times where an A310 is taken out of service for the president?

If PK was a private carrier then the refusal of cash would be a bad idea, but PIA employs so many people and is helping the economy of Pakistan, and it is still government owned.

[sAAd]

According to what ive read, PK is only allowed 10 flights a week to London
(this includes Heathrow, Gatwick, Stanstead, Luton, and City.)
Luton and Stanstead wont get a lot of passengers as there arnt many asians in those areas, and Citys runway is too short for any wide body to land.
Therefore, the airline devide the flights for London with KHI getting 3, ISL getting 3, and LHE getting 4 flights per week!

PK must had recieved a massive discount from BOEING because, like B777240ER mentioned, the economic state of the US was not too good, and they took 2 LRs which where built for testing. Maybe that was the reaon PK chose Boeing over Airbus, even though i would had still prefered the A330.

I think its better to have a smaaler aircraft fly with a full load than a larger aircraft with a half load!

[Jacobin777]

Without going into a long drawn Boeing vs Airbus debate, the reasons for the Airbus to come up now with an A370 is because the A350 was a knee jerk reaction to the 787 moreoever with the entire resources trapped in the 380's they expected airlines like QR to bail them out with the initial investments.
After evaluations it was decided to enhance the 350 hence the A370, which would any time of the day blow away the B777's and would give the 787 a tough competition.

The A330's are basically the replacements of the A300-600R's with extended range, they were never in the run with the B777's.

I don't know what crushing ecnomics are you refering to, 'cause there are definately more A330's around as compared to the B777's, pick up an issue of flight magazine, should speak for it self. Read carefully again my post does not at any point reflect upon the selection of any particular engine type, or do you see some thing I don't.

PK needs I am sure you're no expert on either,I donno how you've concluded that the A330/340 would not suffice, in terms of economics they're much cheaper and yes I do agree that with 2 engines on the 777's provide cheaper operating costs. However the cost of a B777 vs an Airbus is a consideration along with the terms and flexibility of repayments that Airbus offers is no match for the Boeings.
PIA being in a financial crunch and that is pretty evident with them having difficulty paying employees salaries which in most cases isn't prior to the 1st week or even later of every month speaks volumes about the airline financial health itself.

We can be as idealistic as possible talking about 'Solid business' plans etc. well that 'll never be because this is PIA and you have no idea of their internal workings as to how they go about it. Should you get an opportunity do sit in one of the meetings will see how detached they are from the ground realities.
Kindly do read my post carefully I am not advocating the existance of the B747-200 or the 737 in the PIA fleet and neither have I projected myself to be an expert in the field, this is my opinion and am entitled to it since this being a public forum.
Whether you trust me or not is of no significance to me, it was just a figure of speech and please relax, your's or my views have absolutely no bearing on the decisions that'll be taken in PIA, it is not and never will run on any commercial lines, so don't waste your energy comparing it to EK or CX.

Have a nice day !

You talk about "not getting into a long drawn out debate" then continue with your comments...and yes..the 777's do beat out the A340 in a huge way...even Airbus' COO John Leahy admits to it (hence Airbus offering "cash back")


Boeing has been very flexible and aggressive in its prices also, thus winning back previous customers..

As mentioned ad nauseam....the A330's not in the same category as the 777's, they have different mission profiles, and 330's are difficult planes to get a hold of also....

You opine on the board yet give no facts to which I've countered with many facts....

You make the comment that the A370 will "blow away" the 777's and give the 787 a "tough competition"..yet basically no one knows what the A370 is..not even one of Airbus' biggest customrs, Emirates....


I have nothing personal against you...and I don't want you to think I'm "personally" attacking you in any sort of way...but since this is a public board, I also have a right to debate and form opinions..and I at the very least, back up my comments with facts......

Finally, why would I would I get upset here? It's not like as if I'm fleet director for PK...

kind regards...

[Jacobin777]

PIA can make Karachi into a hub if they want to, but ISB and LHE are better because they are limited.

If the aircraft is flying KHI - LHE/ISB - EU/CAN/US half full, then PK needs to time domestic flights so that passengers can connect onwards. PIA also need to consider whether it is worthwhile moving the plane to the domestic terminal from international for a domestic flight so passengers originating from ISB/LHE can board.

Unfortunately PK has a poor marketing department.

I think PK should have bought the B777 over the A340. Yes, financially they may have trouble financing them but they are earning revenues and saving on costs. I would have preferred A332 because less seats are more easier to fill and PK can introduce more flights. Yes they are too small some routes, but great for others. I can see PK ordering 787-300/800 as A332 is old now but when the decision was made...

I doubt that EK will manage PK, mainly because of the Pak government and Pakistan is a important market for PK. They will not want to loose thier customers.

BTW whats MNA/MPA?

Also PK ordered the B777 in 2002 when US economy was in a bad state after 9/11 so I'd imagine they got a good discount.

AC may start KHI next year via DXB but passengers may still prefer the non-stop route.

I don't think the B787 was available when PK ordered its B777's.

The B777 will not be of a liability because ED is only allowed 8 flights per week to UK whilst for PK it is unlimited (excluding LHR/LGW).

How many routes do PK operate because of government pressure? What about the times where an A310 is taken out of service for the president?

If PK was a private carrier then the refusal of cash would be a bad idea, but PIA employs so many people and is helping the economy of Pakistan, and it is still government owned.

You got some good points there!

The problem with KHI is that they have fallen behind too many carriers such as EK, QR, EY, etc.....

I think that PK should "retreat" from KHI and focus on ISB/LHE..those are the majour hubs where maximum yields would be generated....for passengers connecting to KHI from ISB/LHE, they should offer seamless transitioning (immigartion/passport controls/baggaging, etc.) between international to domestic....

The A330's are too small for PK's needs, they don't have the slots they need in the United Kingdom, especially LHR.....and the cargo capabilities with the 777's are amazing....

for PK, its a matter of having a good business plan...the passengers and business is there...