Emirates Increasing Karachi Flights & to Seek Permission to Increase Islamabad and Lahore Flights

[haroon_ek]

I don't have time to write all the European destinations list here, I just had proved my point of mainland Europe flights..... you can check the destinations in your free time.

All Pakistani expats do not live only in UK, or middle east... I personally know many who take flights from here in Italy from Bologna or Venice or Milan Bergamo or Milan Malpensa... Now Turin is being also served by Turkish... Same goes for south of Italy, Rome, Napoli.....
Germany has so many Pakistani expats living, then Copenhagen... Amsterdam... and so on..

you can do your research if you wish....

No i get the point you are making but you have to look at the overall bigger picture here, there may be a few thousand pakistani diaspora in italy, but say for example, there is much higher diaspora in the Netherlands. You cant go and ruin your profits to operate to a place with less demand (not that it matters with super connector airlines) but there isnt the same demand volume of European flights than there are flights to the UK.

PIA's bread and butter is the UK.

I never stated that because of Italian market, they need to add one more flight. I just gave you one example of one country from where there is so much potential, other countries with higher potential together can give Turkish a great opportunity to attract customers that use even air Arabia these days, not forgetting what EY/EK/QR etc.

anyways you missed the bigger picture. PIA might have the edge in UK but here in Europe, we all depend on foreign airlines for our travel to/from Pakistan. That’s where Turkish can greatly benefit.

[baberblues]

I don't have time to write all the European destinations list here, I just had proved my point of mainland Europe flights..... you can check the destinations in your free time.

All Pakistani expats do not live only in UK, or middle east... I personally know many who take flights from here in Italy from Bologna or Venice or Milan Bergamo or Milan Malpensa... Now Turin is being also served by Turkish... Same goes for south of Italy, Rome, Napoli.....
Germany has so many Pakistani expats living, then Copenhagen... Amsterdam... and so on..

you can do your research if you wish....

No i get the point you are making but you have to look at the overall bigger picture here, there may be a few thousand pakistani diaspora in italy, but say for example, there is much higher diaspora in the Netherlands. You cant go and ruin your profits to operate to a place with less demand (not that it matters with super connector airlines) but there isnt the same demand volume of European flights than there are flights to the UK.

PIA's bread and butter is the UK.

I never stated that because of Italian market, they need to add one more flight. I just gave you one example of one country from where there is so much potential, other countries with higher potential together can give Turkish a great opportunity to attract customers that use even air Arabia these days, not forgetting what EY/EK/QR etc.

anyways you missed the bigger picture. PIA might have the edge in UK but here in Europe, we all depend on foreign airlines for our travel to/from Pakistan. That’s where Turkish can greatly benefit.

Haroon, you clearly have not understood what I am saying, there is no need to run after pennies when you can fly elsewhere for gold. the UK makes more profit for PIA than the whole of Europe combined. The demand from the UK is as such that they can fill multiple aircraft but that is not the case at all in Europe. Many European stations apart from what, Paris and Barcelona at times had services to another secondary city before going back to Pakistan. The demand is just not strong enough compared to the UK and hence this is why super connectors like EK TK EY etc can make it work but PIA may struggle unless they have the right economics. You mentioned plenty italian cities in your post where pakistanis reside, but what is the population of pakistani's living in those cities, its nothing compared to what the UK has and justifies. So the picture I am painting here is, PIA needs to serve countries that can make them a profit and leave the non-profitable stations through agreements with other airlines.

Also with PIA being banned in Europe and the west or east, for the mean time, the majority are currently dependent on foreign airlines at the moment.

[haroon_ek]

I don't have time to write all the European destinations list here, I just had proved my point of mainland Europe flights..... you can check the destinations in your free time.

All Pakistani expats do not live only in UK, or middle east... I personally know many who take flights from here in Italy from Bologna or Venice or Milan Bergamo or Milan Malpensa... Now Turin is being also served by Turkish... Same goes for south of Italy, Rome, Napoli.....
Germany has so many Pakistani expats living, then Copenhagen... Amsterdam... and so on..

you can do your research if you wish....

No i get the point you are making but you have to look at the overall bigger picture here, there may be a few thousand pakistani diaspora in italy, but say for example, there is much higher diaspora in the Netherlands. You cant go and ruin your profits to operate to a place with less demand (not that it matters with super connector airlines) but there isnt the same demand volume of European flights than there are flights to the UK.

PIA's bread and butter is the UK.

I never stated that because of Italian market, they need to add one more flight. I just gave you one example of one country from where there is so much potential, other countries with higher potential together can give Turkish a great opportunity to attract customers that use even air Arabia these days, not forgetting what EY/EK/QR etc.

anyways you missed the bigger picture. PIA might have the edge in UK but here in Europe, we all depend on foreign airlines for our travel to/from Pakistan. That’s where Turkish can greatly benefit.

Haroon, you clearly have not understood what I am saying, there is no need to run after pennies when you can fly elsewhere for gold. the UK makes more profit for PIA than the whole of Europe combined. The demand from the UK is as such that they can fill multiple aircraft but that is not the case at all in Europe. Many European stations apart from what, Paris and Barcelona at times had services to another secondary city before going back to Pakistan. The demand is just not strong enough compared to the UK and hence this is why super connectors like EK TK EY etc can make it work but PIA may struggle unless they have the right economics. You mentioned plenty italian cities in your post where pakistanis reside, but what is the population of pakistani's living in those cities, its nothing compared to what the UK has and justifies. So the picture I am painting here is, PIA needs to serve countries that can make them a profit and leave the non-profitable stations through agreements with other airlines.

Also with PIA being banned in Europe and the west or east, for the mean time, the majority are currently dependent on foreign airlines at the moment.

You have digressed from my original point. You can continue discussing it elsewhere about PIA being a golden airline for UK residents traveling to PK.

[Tuti Fruiti]

I don't have time to write all the European destinations list here, I just had proved my point of mainland Europe flights..... you can check the destinations in your free time.

All Pakistani expats do not live only in UK, or middle east... I personally know many who take flights from here in Italy from Bologna or Venice or Milan Bergamo or Milan Malpensa... Now Turin is being also served by Turkish... Same goes for south of Italy, Rome, Napoli.....
Germany has so many Pakistani expats living, then Copenhagen... Amsterdam... and so on..

you can do your research if you wish....

No i get the point you are making but you have to look at the overall bigger picture here, there may be a few thousand pakistani diaspora in italy, but say for example, there is much higher diaspora in the Netherlands. You cant go and ruin your profits to operate to a place with less demand (not that it matters with super connector airlines) but there isnt the same demand volume of European flights than there are flights to the UK.

PIA's bread and butter is the UK.

I never stated that because of Italian market, they need to add one more flight. I just gave you one example of one country from where there is so much potential, other countries with higher potential together can give Turkish a great opportunity to attract customers that use even air Arabia these days, not forgetting what EY/EK/QR etc.

anyways you missed the bigger picture. PIA might have the edge in UK but here in Europe, we all depend on foreign airlines for our travel to/from Pakistan. That’s where Turkish can greatly benefit.

Haroon, you clearly have not understood what I am saying, there is no need to run after pennies when you can fly elsewhere for gold. the UK makes more profit for PIA than the whole of Europe combined. The demand from the UK is as such that they can fill multiple aircraft but that is not the case at all in Europe. Many European stations apart from what, Paris and Barcelona at times had services to another secondary city before going back to Pakistan. The demand is just not strong enough compared to the UK and hence this is why super connectors like EK TK EY etc can make it work but PIA may struggle unless they have the right economics. You mentioned plenty italian cities in your post where pakistanis reside, but what is the population of pakistani's living in those cities, its nothing compared to what the UK has and justifies. So the picture I am painting here is, PIA needs to serve countries that can make them a profit and leave the non-profitable stations through agreements with other airlines.

Also with PIA being banned in Europe and the west or east, for the mean time, the majority are currently dependent on foreign airlines at the moment.

You have digressed from my original point. You can continue discussing it elsewhere about PIA being a golden airline for UK residents traveling to PK.

No doubt Pakistani diaspora exists in Italy, Spain, Greece, Norway, Germany, France and their number is increasing..PIA ideally shud have flights there...but there is also undeniable fact that diaspora in UK in much more than all the diaspora combined in all other European countries.

[baberblues]

I don't have time to write all the European destinations list here, I just had proved my point of mainland Europe flights..... you can check the destinations in your free time.

All Pakistani expats do not live only in UK, or middle east... I personally know many who take flights from here in Italy from Bologna or Venice or Milan Bergamo or Milan Malpensa... Now Turin is being also served by Turkish... Same goes for south of Italy, Rome, Napoli.....
Germany has so many Pakistani expats living, then Copenhagen... Amsterdam... and so on..

you can do your research if you wish....

No i get the point you are making but you have to look at the overall bigger picture here, there may be a few thousand pakistani diaspora in italy, but say for example, there is much higher diaspora in the Netherlands. You cant go and ruin your profits to operate to a place with less demand (not that it matters with super connector airlines) but there isnt the same demand volume of European flights than there are flights to the UK.

PIA's bread and butter is the UK.

I never stated that because of Italian market, they need to add one more flight. I just gave you one example of one country from where there is so much potential, other countries with higher potential together can give Turkish a great opportunity to attract customers that use even air Arabia these days, not forgetting what EY/EK/QR etc.

anyways you missed the bigger picture. PIA might have the edge in UK but here in Europe, we all depend on foreign airlines for our travel to/from Pakistan. That’s where Turkish can greatly benefit.

Haroon, you clearly have not understood what I am saying, there is no need to run after pennies when you can fly elsewhere for gold. the UK makes more profit for PIA than the whole of Europe combined. The demand from the UK is as such that they can fill multiple aircraft but that is not the case at all in Europe. Many European stations apart from what, Paris and Barcelona at times had services to another secondary city before going back to Pakistan. The demand is just not strong enough compared to the UK and hence this is why super connectors like EK TK EY etc can make it work but PIA may struggle unless they have the right economics. You mentioned plenty italian cities in your post where pakistanis reside, but what is the population of pakistani's living in those cities, its nothing compared to what the UK has and justifies. So the picture I am painting here is, PIA needs to serve countries that can make them a profit and leave the non-profitable stations through agreements with other airlines.

Also with PIA being banned in Europe and the west or east, for the mean time, the majority are currently dependent on foreign airlines at the moment.

You have digressed from my original point. You can continue discussing it elsewhere about PIA being a golden airline for UK residents traveling to PK.

We are not going to go back and forward but the point stands that there is no need for any airline to add more flights to stations where the economics does not add up, the airlines know better and it is evident where the demand is.

[faisal-777]

I guess the discussion went into this direction mainly on the timing of additional flights, which i assumed would not be favorable to people traveling to European mainland.

[b78709]

I guess the discussion went into this direction mainly on the timing of additional flights, which i assumed would not be favorable to people traveling to European mainland.

It will be worst decision for anyone traveling to Europe or Americas. We deserve something better than GCC/ME3 or GGC/ME4. Dubai transit is a nightmare. May be KLM, AIr France or even Egypt Air in addition to Turkish will be better.

[faisal-777]

I guess the discussion went into this direction mainly on the timing of additional flights, which i assumed would not be favorable to people traveling to European mainland.

It will be worst decision for anyone traveling to Europe or Americas. We deserve something better than GCC/ME3 or GGC/ME4. Dubai transit is a nightmare. May be KLM, AIr France or even Egypt Air in addition to Turkish will be better.

A european airline will not gain from transiting PK PAX via their hub. To my knowledge, Pakistani passport holders transiting via Schengen to US/Canada or any other part of world require visa A (transit visa) EVEN if they dont leave airport. This makes no case for KLM, Lufthansa etc to tap into PK market.

And I am not so sure how feasible is the PAX load if they try to focus on PAX with EU as their end destination. Over there they will get beaten by ME3 literally in every department.

[haroon_ek]

In fact I would say one more TK slot for LHE, ISB, KHI where the flight lands in Pakistan at around 10-11 p.m and departs back for Istanbul at 1 am or so. The current timings of TK (i.e., departure at 5 a.m something) is too tiring.

Instead of granting Emirates extra slot at ISB, give one extra daily slot to TK - that will help passengers more.

It seems my voice reached the offices of Turkish Airlines, as I was absolutely right in my argument.

Looking at the flight schedule from Istanbul to Lahore, Turkish Airlines has added an additional flight to the usual IST-LHE: 21:20-04:35 and LHE-IST: 06:05-10:45, operated by A332/A333. The new addition is IST-LHE: 00:55-08:10 and LHE-IST: 09:40-14:20, also operated by A332/A333, but only from December 2024 until mid-February 2025. This is clearly a test to see how well the additional flight performs in terms of traffic.

I really hope this new schedule works out and continues beyond February 2025, as it greatly benefits us expats in Europe. The timing allows for a 17:00-18:00 departure from Europe, a connecting flight from Istanbul at midnight with a transit time of 1.5-2 hours, and an arrival in Lahore by 08:00. The return flight is also more convenient, with a 10:00 departure, avoiding the exhausting 03:00 check-in for the 06:00 flight, which leaves travelers sleep-deprived.

[danyal77W]

I remember Turkish Airlines also operated twice daily on KHI IST route. These were the times when Turkish Airlines used to operate only Boeing 737-800s. So, there were two daily 737-800 flights to Istanbul from Karachi.

I don’t know if anyone can recall the years when TK operated two daily flights with Boeing 737-800s. My first TK flight to IST was in 2013, and it was also a Boeing 737-800.

However, the second addition was a very short lived one. I hope this is not the case with LHE, and they continue to operate way beyond Feb 2025.

[danyal77W]

Turkish Airlines is also adding additional three weekly on ISB-IST route.

[faisal-777]

These are all good developments. I hope increased capacity influences air fares to go down as well. Right now EK fares are exorbitantly high, TK is usually cheapest and QR fluctuates but is manageable.

[b78709]

These are all good developments. I hope increased capacity influences air fares to go down as well. Right now EK fares are exorbitantly high, TK is usually cheapest and QR fluctuates but is manageable.

Why not start auctioning airport gates to these aspirant foreign airlines ?

[danyal77W]

I also think that it is a great development. You should be grateful that these airlines are still operating in Pakistan even when they are not able to recover funds from Pakistan because the funds are blocked in Pakistan.

Moreover, the state of Pakistani airlines, you must be knowing better - its disastrous. They are barely surviving. They are hopeless airlines with managements that are not in a position to operate beyond Saudi Arabia, UAE, Muscat, or Bahrain

Sad, weak, and stupid Pakistani Aviation Industry.

[TheAnalyst]

These are all good developments. I hope increased capacity influences air fares to go down as well. Right now EK fares are exorbitantly high, TK is usually cheapest and QR fluctuates but is manageable.

EK fares are indeed very high but it seems that even if there is increased capacity the fares remain high especially, for EK. For example, just noted EK's capacity from AMS is 3 daily flights however, seats are filled up only 80% in the lower season but fares remain the same. On average it leaves around 100 seats empty. QR drops fare as soon as it makes more capacity available and is more flexible in aircraft changes.