Corruption in PIA pilot selection?

[AN]

you missed the point

[Adnaan786]

you missed the point

Aroosh you said it your self:

Popular saying is that they were both classmates of the aforementioned chairman during earlier years. After all, its all about WHO you know

[Adnaan786]

I've heard a lot of things about PIA's pilot selection procedures. Mainly that often they don't select on merit etc..... It makes me suspicous because on their advertisements it says-

1) you have no right of appeal
2) they don't have to give you your marks

I'm wondering what anyone has to say about this, is it present in PIA and if so how prominent is it.

Thanks in advance.

Sadly in Pakistani Employment Culture, the translation of the word Merit=Sifarish

"It's not what you know but who you know"

Allah Hafiz!

You're right Fanjet. This is one of the main reasons PIA is in the mess it is in at the moment. This will never end in Pakistan.

[AN]

That is correct, but my example was not in PILOT SELECTION, but in selection of the management of the flight operations dept.
Furthermore, how do you think the chairman got his seat. You could even look towards CAA, whose director was recently changed to another ex-oil CEO. How much do you think he knows about aviation?


so in fact id even go as far as saying that at the present time, pilot selection is probably the most transparent selection process in all of PIA. Far superior (as fact has shown) to the selection of management.
After all, I think we can all agree on who is running the airline into the ground, and it sure as hell isnt the pilots.

[Adnaan786]

That is correct, but my example was not in PILOT SELECTION, but in selection of the management of the flight operations dept.
Furthermore, how do you think the chairman got his seat. You could even look towards CAA, whose director was recently changed to another ex-oil CEO. How much do you think he knows about aviation?

so in fact id even go as far as saying that at the present time, pilot selection is probably the most transparent selection process in all of PIA. Far superior (as fact has shown) to the selection of management.
After all, I think we can all agree on who is running the airline into the ground, and it sure as hell isnt the pilots.

Your digging a bigger and bigger hole my friend. You and I, and many many other people know the selection process is corrupt. I don't want to start naming names... we all know at least one person who has got into PIA through the backdoor.

If it's happening at the top, why wouldn't it happen at the bottom? Secondly, tell me what is so transparent about their selection?

[AN]

i like to dig, particularly with people who like to make statements like "you and i both know of one person". Actually I dont, so please do tell me. In fact, I can say that the selection process is very poor, in that alot of better pilots dont get selected, and alot of VERY VERY poor ones do, but I have already explained the restraints of the system that must be adhered to thanks to our beloved govt. and nothing can be done about that, atleast not by the people in PIA making the selection.

I am however VERY curious as to who this "person" is, so how about a message or something to open my eyes to the truth???

Secondly, like I said, if your the presidents son or something to that effect, nobody in any coporation or country can turn you down. So.......

By transparent I mean that there isnt anywhere in the selection process where things can be messed around with.

[Adnaan786]

i like to dig, particularly with people who like to make statements like "you and i both know of one person". Actually I dont, so please do tell me. In fact, I can say that the selection process is very poor, in that alot of better pilots dont get selected, and alot of VERY VERY poor ones do, but I have already explained the restraints of the system that must be adhered to thanks to our beloved govt. and nothing can be done about that, atleast not by the people in PIA making the selection.

I am however VERY curious as to who this "person" is, so how about a message or something to open my eyes to the truth???

Secondly, like I said, if your the presidents son or something to that effect, nobody in any coporation or country can turn you down. So.......

By transparent I mean that there isnt anywhere in the selection process where things can be messed around with.

Numerous sons/daughters of PIA pilots are a good place to start. Everyone know's about this, which is why I'm stating it. Remember Aroosh just because it happens doesn't make it right.

Other names, those who didn't have any family/friends within the airline, their names I'm not going to share, but there are plentiful. I believe the going rate for this service is 10 lakh rupees presently. Nice.

I recently enquired about PIA pilot selection from a number of sources. I was told by most that it is a sifarish system with very few being selected on merit. Straight from the horses mouth as they say.

You were talking about transparency? More like a smoke screen!

[Adnaan786]

Secondly, like I said, if your the presidents son or something to that effect, nobody in any coporation or country can turn you down. So.......

What do you mean....?

[AN]

sorry my friend
during the selection i went through, of over 25 pilots kids who applied, only 2 were accepted. And the statistics remain the same for later selections.
Secondly, if you take an average person who has never been inside the cockpit of a jet, and someone who has spent thousands of hours in one, and read all the manuals, SOP's etc, honestly, which one would be more qualified?
Its knowledge like that which shows up in interviews, and seperates you from the rest of pack, which is why (in some cases, as not all of them are that interested) pilots kids have an advantage over others.

Finaly, I can testify, as Ramiz also has, to the selection process as we have both been through it, and know the rest of the people who have. Most of those people do not have the influence, or resources (if the price you have qouted is true) to do what you say is done. There are people who thought they had no chance of getting in, due to people like you spreading false rumors, and were stupified (AND STILL ARE) to find themselves accepted.

And if you give me names,(and im very curious) which i think you are too scared to do, I can see who/what you are talking about. But you wouldnt do that would you. So we will never know who these mystery people who sneal in the back door are, as people with this knowledge are too scared to speak of it. Sad.

[Adnaan786]

Of these 25 "pilot kids" what number were sons/daughters of senior pilots?

I remember you once saying on here that you didn't have any family/friends within PIA, the Air Froce or the Government. This was in response to someone making a remark on the integrity of the selection process. Why did you lie?

[Adnaan786]

Secondly, if you take an average person who has never been inside the cockpit of a jet, and someone who has spent thousands of hours in one, and read all the manuals, SOP's etc, honestly, which one would be more qualified?

So are you saying the selection process leans towards those fortunate to have spent 1000s of hours in a cockpit? So it leans towards the sons/daughters/family/friends of the cockpit crew in that case because most ordinary folk aren't fortunate enough to have that kind of experience?

Also, everyone learns the SOPs and reads the manuals during the TR. It's not like you don't have to do this if you have 1000s of hours in a cockpit. So hardly a big advantage.

..... you keep digging that hole.

[AN]

1. I said I dont have family/friends in govt/PIA management

2. you will be surprised how many people have never read the PIA SOP and still get selected.

3. Thousands of hours in a cockpit is great experience and puts you well above anyone who doesnt have that, if all else is the same. So yes, it is better and im not just sayin that, its fact.ASK A PILOT. Which im having my doubt about you being. Whether that time spent in the work/cockpit environment is because it is a benefit given to you and the only way you can travel, or whether you simply find some other way to do it, thats not the point. Its experience, and worth its weight in gold.

[Adnaan786]

1. I said I dont have family/friends in govt/PIA management

2. you will be surprised how many people have never read the PIA SOP and still get selected.

3. Thousands of hours in a cockpit is great experience and puts you well above anyone who doesnt have that, if all else is the same. So yes, it is better and im not just sayin that, its fact.ASK A PILOT. Which im having my doubt about you being. Whether that time spent in the work/cockpit environment is because it is a benefit given to you and the only way you can travel, or whether you simply find some other way to do it, thats not the point. Its experience, and worth its weight in gold.

This is not a personal battle.

I was arguing my point, which is based on research I've done into the selection process, and includes pilots within PIA of considerable experience.

I don't feel you've defended your view very well at all. I guess we can leave it at that.

It would be interesting to know what other people think.

[AN]

I remind you once again that I am talking about the selection process in its current state, ie how it has been the last few years. Which means none of the people im talking about have more than a few months experience in the airline, and most have not even finished inital training yet. So i dont know who/where your "research" is coming from, but it does not coer the demographic i am referring to.


"I dont feel you have defended your view at all"

thats funny, and almost sounds like you are the Judge on this matter. Sadly, you have not lived the experience, so what you think of it is far from the truth. Although you did make a few good points, in fact, id say you defended your view well. Its too bad its not really your "view" and simply a view of others that you are reflecting, as you have no experience with the system. Why call it "your view" then.

You would think someone who has been through it would know more about it than someone who talks to OTHER PEOPLE.

[AN]

Oh and im still waiting on the names of the people who get int he back door. If you can come up with something good there I might take you more seriously, but so far you havent even been able to PM me a single name.

so how can you sit there and make claims to research and both of us knowing people who have gone around the system???