PM Seeks Report on Pilots With Forged Educational Documents and Pilot Licences Issued by CAA in Dubious Manner

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awasi
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Re: PM Seeks Report on Pilots With Forged Educational Documents and Pilot Licences Issued by CAA in Dubious Manner

Post by awasi »

Abbas Ali wrote: Wed Jun 24, 2020 11:32 pm PIA Spokesperson briefed that the events of investigations into dubious licenses issued by the aviation regulator in the country were highlighted itself by the national flag carrier in the aftermath of the incident in Panjgur that occurred in November 2018 where an ATR skidded off the runway, using the hot and high approach and then making some elementary level mistakes. That prompted an inquiry into the pilot’s credentials which were found to be dubious. The same was reported to the regulator and PIA requested Government of Pakistan to constitute a high level inquiry into the matter which the Aviation Minister ordered immediately. A thorough forensic audit was conducted into the licenses of all the pilots obtained within the country. PIA management continuously followed up for expediting the inquiry process and highest executive office of the country also intervened. Meanwhile PIA tracked another 15 such pilots and all of them were grounded pending clearance from the inquiry board. That did cost PIA 175-200 million in terms of salaries of such pilots, not to mention additional perks and privileges; however the decision was not to compromise on flight safety.

PIA will be making additional recommendations to the regulatory authority for further process improvement which is the order of the day, saying that the regulator would be needed to firm up and bring about zero-tolerance towards misdemeanors in the grant and checking of licenses.

PIA has now written to CAA Pakistan to urgently provide the list of other licenses found to be dubious and despite the number of such pilots and its adverse impact onto PIA’s flight, all of them will be indefinitely grounded pending outcome of inquiries against them, constituted by the Government of Pakistan. Those found at fault will be terminated from service after following a due process. He reiterated that some of our flights may be cancelled consequently but safety takes precedence over commercial interests and only pilots with impeccable service records and clear credentials will operate the flights.

Source: PIA Press Release
Can you plz share the source of this Press Release. I couldn't find it on PIA's website. Thanks


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Re: PM Seeks Report on Pilots With Forged Educational Documents and Pilot Licences Issued by CAA in Dubious Manner

Post by Abbas Ali »

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Re: PM Seeks Report on Pilots With Forged Educational Documents and Pilot Licences Issued by CAA in Dubious Manner

Post by awasi »

Thank you, appreciate it. So below is what it says in the Press Release

"A thorough forensic audit was conducted into the licenses of all the pilots obtained within the country. PIA management continuously followed up for expediting the inquiry process and highest executive office of the country also intervened. Meanwhile PIA tracked another 15 such pilots and all of them were grounded pending clearance from the inquiry board. That did cost PIA 175-200 million in terms of salaries of such pilots, not to mention additional perks and privileges; however, the decision was not to compromise on flight safety."

If a thorough forensic audit was conducted back in Nov 2018, then why does PIA still have pilot's flying on fake licenses ? This is not adding up, and is sounding like that PIA is now trying to cover their backs via this Press Release.

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Re: PM Seeks Report on Pilots With Forged Educational Documents and Pilot Licences Issued by CAA in Dubious Manner

Post by Abbas Ali »

CEO PIA in a letter to Secretary Aviation - Aviation Division is seeking "list of all pilots who have been found possessing suspicious commercial pilot licences, clearly indicating fake or suspicious licence against each name".

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Re: PM Seeks Report on Pilots With Forged Educational Documents and Pilot Licences Issued by CAA in Dubious Manner

Post by Abbas Ali »

Out of 264 fake/suspicious pilot licences, around 150 belong to PIA pilots.

CEO PIA letter to DG CAA.

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Re: PM Seeks Report on Pilots With Forged Educational Documents and Pilot Licences Issued by CAA in Dubious Manner

Post by A310 »

it is impossible to fly for any airline with a ‘fake’ license. I feel like the use of word ‘fake’ has been intentionally blown out of proportion just to strengthen the wave against pilots. Yes it is possible to possess a license by taking unethical shortcuts such as paying someone to take your CPL/ATPL papers and all such pilots should be put to task. In fact a number of them were fired while the rest remain grounded pending a case in court. Now this figure of 150 is outrageous. I believe just over 400 pilots are serving PIA right now. 1/3 proportion is very very huge. Don’t even know if its true.

Let’s come to the long term impact of this. The CEO has yet again proven to be a man with a pea sized brain. Lets assume that this news was true, it could’ve been investigated internally. And don’t anyone dare call me out for this suggestion because we all know that armed forces can get anything done if they wish so. There wouldn’t have been any resistance. Now that it is a global news, most of the passengers are going to run away and rightfully so. What about those losses? Lets say the list comes out and those 150 pilots are grounded/fired. So once they’re done and dusted, how are you going to make people believe in PIA again? Once those pilots are gone, this CEO and that oldie minister will be responsible for the losses PIA will suffer. I wouldn’t be surprised if we have 150 unemployed ex Shaheen/Bhoja/Indus pilots in the market. Remember my words guys this is the last nail in the coffin of this PAF management. I can bet on my life that the actual figure will be wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy less than 150. I want all such pilots out but this could’ve been initiated in a civil way, the irony being those who initiated it call all of us ‘bloody civilians’.

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Re: PM Seeks Report on Pilots With Forged Educational Documents and Pilot Licences Issued by CAA in Dubious Manner

Post by awasi »

A310 wrote: Fri Jun 26, 2020 12:03 am it is impossible to fly for any airline with a ‘fake’ license. I feel like the use of word ‘fake’ has been intentionally blown out of proportion just to strengthen the wave against pilots. Yes it is possible to possess a license by taking unethical shortcuts such as paying someone to take your CPL/ATPL papers and all such pilots should be put to task. In fact a number of them were fired while the rest remain grounded pending a case in court. Now this figure of 150 is outrageous. I believe just over 400 pilots are serving PIA right now. 1/3 proportion is very very huge. Don’t even know if its true.

Let’s come to the long term impact of this. The CEO has yet again proven to be a man with a pea sized brain. Lets assume that this news was true, it could’ve been investigated internally. And don’t anyone dare call me out for this suggestion because we all know that armed forces can get anything done if they wish so. There wouldn’t have been any resistance. Now that it is a global news, most of the passengers are going to run away and rightfully so. What about those losses? Lets say the list comes out and those 150 pilots are grounded/fired. So once they’re done and dusted, how are you going to make people believe in PIA again? Once those pilots are gone, this CEO and that oldie minister will be responsible for the losses PIA will suffer. I wouldn’t be surprised if we have 150 unemployed ex Shaheen/Bhoja/Indus pilots in the market. Remember my words guys this is the last nail in the coffin of this PAF management. I can bet on my life that the actual figure will be wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy less than 150. I want all such pilots out but this could’ve been initiated in a civil way, the irony being those who initiated it call all of us ‘bloody civilians’.
The PCAA is the licensing authority. Just firing these pilots will not be good enough. They will need to make wholesale change in the PCAA as well, and it will decades to get that trust built again. 5 minute of speech will turn into a 20 year disaster for Pakistan Aviation.

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Re: PM Seeks Report on Pilots With Forged Educational Documents and Pilot Licences Issued by CAA in Dubious Manner

Post by A310 »

awasi wrote: Fri Jun 26, 2020 12:11 am The PCAA is the licensing authority. Just firing these pilots will not be good enough. They will need to make wholesale change in the PCAA as well, and it will decades to get that trust built again. 5 minute of speech will turn into a 20 year disaster for Pakistan Aviation.
Since the crash looks more and more like human error, these guys used that to further increase the pressure on pilots. I didn’t even bring up PCAA in my post because it’s a lost cause. The authority is full of as**oles. A letter questioning competency of PALPA GS is also out on social media. But why was the letter dated 13 March made public just a day after GS lashed out at the management. They just seem to care about the public when they’re targeted themselves. If that Capt. is an incompetent pilot and instructor then why was he allowed to fly for 3 more months after the observations of that CAA inspector who was onboard the route check in March?

Also then cancel all flights until the list is out? Now that this animal has blown it out of proportion, act accordingly? Why risk the lives of passengers for 2 more days? As was evident from 8303 CVR findings, pilots are in fact concerned about COVID 19. On top of that mental stress, the alleged pilots with fake licenses will be under more pressure because they know they’ll be caught. How efficiently do you think they’re going to perform their duty till the time this list is out? Can someone tell them about that Germanwings crash in which the FO wasn’t in the right state of mind and slammed the 320 in a mountain.

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Re: PM Seeks Report on Pilots With Forged Educational Documents and Pilot Licences Issued by CAA in Dubious Manner

Post by baberblues »

God, american and european authorities should really ban PIA from their airspace till this is in order, no confidence to fly to these places at all.

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Re: PM Seeks Report on Pilots With Forged Educational Documents and Pilot Licences Issued by CAA in Dubious Manner

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Re: PM Seeks Report on Pilots With Forged Educational Documents and Pilot Licences Issued by CAA in Dubious Manner

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Re: PM Seeks Report on Pilots With Forged Educational Documents and Pilot Licences Issued by CAA in Dubious Manner

Post by Hassan777 »

Pilots having these dubious licenses don’t only deserve to be kicked out and humiliated i think capital punishment is more like it , because this is criminal negligence and honestly I don’t feel safe flying in Pakistan now , who knows how many instructors are incompetent and will train incompetent pilots, I really appreciate these steps taken by the management and hopefully more accountability will prevail in PIA, no wonder the mafia in PIA hates the CEO, He hits them where it hurts and they can’t stand seeing their Golden days go.

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Re: PM Seeks Report on Pilots With Forged Educational Documents and Pilot Licences Issued by CAA in Dubious Manner

Post by adamalikhan »

This is now being run by so many international news channels and does not show the country in a good light.

Whilst I dont condone pilots having fake licences, why did the aviation minister make such a bold statement without taking a bold step at the same time.

All he has done is make the likes of IATA sit up and take notice and other countries CAA where the likes of PIA and other Pak airlines fly to!

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Re: PM Seeks Report on Pilots With Forged Educational Documents and Pilot Licences Issued by CAA in Dubious Manner

Post by umar744 »

there nothing do wrong with PIA pilots because PIA pilots NOT faulty but you should know flying club are fully responsible but some old fashion flying club old manual book there no computer long time ago but you know how PIA pilots have good experiences training simulators and check inspection well done. Capt Sajjad Gul very very very tired person accident crashed after everyday duty but should rest and sleep least 3 days off after flight duty. Best good luck for Pakistani pilots successfully there no illegal.

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Re: PM Seeks Report on Pilots With Forged Educational Documents and Pilot Licences Issued by CAA in Dubious Manner

Post by Zulfiqar »

adamalikhan wrote: Fri Jun 26, 2020 12:33 pm Whilst I dont condone pilots having fake licences, why did the aviation minister make such a bold statement without taking a bold step at the same time.

All he has done is make the likes of IATA sit up and take notice and other countries CAA where the likes of PIA and other Pak airlines fly to!
Agree, but perhaps (wishing) he did this to help shake up the system. CAA etc will be more focussed on getting things right if they are being strictly observed?

But his words have indeed allowed the media around the world to ridicule the country. But if there is corruption then it should be stamped out.