PIA ATR Incident at Gilgit Airport

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SM
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Re: PIA ATR Incident at Gilgit Airport

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faisal-777 wrote:
Thu Jul 25, 2019 11:41 pm
On a clear day with good visibility, dry runway, an aircraft overshooting a runway can only be a serious piloting error. There is no 2nd opinion, unless you are friends with the pilots.
I have spoken to many people within the aviation community and everyone believes that Capt. Maryam Masood is responsible. Most are not even surprised given her training and career record. If the Air Marshal means business, he should relieve her from her duties as a Captain. It is important that people are held accountable for professional incompetence.
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Abbas Ali
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Re: PIA ATR Incident at Gilgit Airport

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Do Pakistani airports have surveillance cameras to record entire day's aircraft landings and takeoffs?

Surveillance cameras footage can help investigators.

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SM
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Re: PIA ATR Incident at Gilgit Airport

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Here's a video showing, hopefully soon-to-be-former, Capt. Maryam and her F/O next to AP-BHP; just moments after their landing.

She can be seen happily talking on a cellular phone with a wide grin that's visible to a camera that's at least a couple hundred feet away. In my opinion, this is unbecoming of a professional in any case.

The F/O does appear visibly shaken and his body language communicates regret.

https://youtu.be/h8En6GhLv6s?t=47
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Abbas Ali
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Re: PIA ATR Incident at Gilgit Airport

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Preliminary investigation report blames aircraft captain for the accident - Express News.

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Re: PIA ATR Incident at Gilgit Airport

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Last edited by Winds Aloft on Sat Jul 27, 2019 3:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: PIA ATR Incident at Gilgit Airport

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Winds Aloft wrote:
Sat Jul 27, 2019 3:41 pm
SM you think so it is going to be soon to be former ? Its PIA . Jin key phudu khatey induction. testing. simulator training . certification . main lug
jatey hain in key agey chul ker bhe lug jatey hain. soon you are going to here both pilots and the other pilots from the batch trained and tested prom0ted in the same way to the fullest " PIA Standards " have been promoted to lager faster and more comple jet. By beating all the odds they are going to come out of the training center ground and sim training as very successful and very proficient.

F/O must be thinking that no one told and tested us in PIA for something called " Land by the numbers "

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Re: PIA ATR Incident at Gilgit Airport

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Winds Aloft wrote:
Sat Jul 27, 2019 3:41 pm
SM you think so it is going to be soon to be former ? Its PIA . Jin key phudu khatey induction. testing. simulator training . certification . main lug
jatey hain in key agey chul ker bhe lug jatey hain. soon you are going to here both pilots and the other pilots from the batch trained and tested prom0ted in the same way to the fullest " PIA Standards " have been promoted to lager faster and more comple jet.

F/O must be thinking that no one told and tested us in PIA for something called " Land by the numbers "
Thanks for writing. I agree with your thoughts and a significant part of me thinks that what you have predicted will translate into reality. Having said this, I have a serious hunch that this time around, this particular Captain will be made an example of by the Air Marshal.

The reasoning behind this is that PIA leadership has been communicated in very clear terms that they need to surpass certain well-defined objectives relating to operational performance, HR, and financial KPIs in order for PIA to qualify for future external financing or risk closure in conjunction with an asset-only acquisition by a reincorporated entity that will be managed and partially funded by a major foreign carrier.

If the second option were to happen, many PIA pilots, cabin crews, and most ground staff will be automatically terminated. Therefore, there's an organic desire to strive for option one, which is to qualify for future external financing based on major improvements across well-defined KPIs. The recent and upcoming terminations of personnel across PIA that have fake degrees, documented incompetence, and criminal records is in line with these goals.
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Re: PIA ATR Incident at Gilgit Airport

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Abbas Ali wrote:
Sat Jul 27, 2019 3:35 pm
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Preliminary investigation report blames aircraft captain for the accident - Express News.

Abbas
This is highly inappropriate to blame captain at this stage. I feel at this stage we only know that the aircraft landed long and fast, however do we know why?
SM wrote:
Sat Jul 27, 2019 1:20 pm
She can be seen happily talking on a cellular phone with a wide grin that's visible to a camera that's at least a couple hundred feet away. In my opinion, this is unbecoming of a professional in any case.
https://youtu.be/h8En6GhLv6s?t=47
I tried my best in full screen mode, but could not see the grin, may be getting older, need to change my glasses :D

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Re: PIA ATR Incident at Gilgit Airport

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According to Express News channel, Capt. Maryam told investigators that she was unable to control the aircraft due to its high speed.

The aircraft touched down late, according to the news channel.

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Re: PIA ATR Incident at Gilgit Airport

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Abbas Ali wrote:
Sat Jul 27, 2019 6:14 pm
Image
According to Express News channel, Capt. Maryam told investigators that she was unable to control the aircraft due to its high speed.

The aircraft touched down late, according to the news channel.

Abbas
then why GO AROUND not executed?
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Re: PIA ATR Incident at Gilgit Airport

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Recently there were back to back train crashes in Pakistan and many attributed it to the push by the minister of railways to get 'high' performance while the SYSTEM was not able to deliver such high throughput.
Concerning this PIA crash, the Captain is OR may be just part of the ATR crash. One wonders if the practises and management rules are followed properly in running this airline. If there is flaw out there in those may be such incidents or perhaps more than that might come on their way.

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Re: PIA ATR Incident at Gilgit Airport

Post by Charliedelta11 »

One of the things that we do very frequently in Medicine is quality and safety with a focus on process improvement. The premise is simple, human errors will take place, so what sort of checks and balances can be put in place to minimize, if not eliminate them.

If this truly is pilot error, simply getting rid of one or both pilots wont prevent such incidents from taking place in the future. The questions will be, was there a total lack of situational awareness in the cockpit? Or did they realize things had gone south just 100 ft short of the end of the runway? Because this leads to a much larger question on the quality of training and the standards that are in place.
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SM
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Re: PIA ATR Incident at Gilgit Airport

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Charliedelta11 wrote:
Sat Jul 27, 2019 10:38 pm
One of the things that we do very frequently in Medicine is quality and safety with a focus on process improvement. The premise is simple, human errors will take place, so what sort of checks and balances can be put in place to minimize, if not eliminate them.

If this truly is pilot error, simply getting rid of one or both pilots wont prevent such incidents from taking place in the future. The questions will be, was there a total lack of situational awareness in the cockpit? Or did they realize things had gone south just 100 ft short of the end of the runway? Because this leads to a much larger question on the quality of training and the standards that are in place.
I think most of us who have either worked or have done business in Pakistan have a fair understanding of "how the system works" in that part of the world. Having the right person for the job is a rarity rather than the norm. This is the fundamental defect that underlies most problems found in the country and PIA is no exception.

Around a year ago, Capt. Maryam appeared in a video on PIA's official YouTube channel. Like millions of others, I saw that clip on social media. For reference, it can still be seen here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aOMbrWClsnU.

Part of the reason why people consider me relatively successful is because of my ability to read other people's body language fairly accurately during business negotiations and to rapidly identify gaps in their communication when they are trying to wear an identity that doesn't belong to them.

Last year, Capt. Maryam's video gave away many signs of someone who lacked competence, honesty, and integrity. To confirm my assessment, I reached out to a number of friends that I have known for a long time in PIA and who happened to know this captain all too well. The feedback I received was horrendous. Anecdotes shared with me not only confirmed what I had already deduced, but among other things, very clearly indicated at that time that she and her sister are likely going to be responsible for a future air safety related incident.

Facts shared with me included how their father - a Colonel - happened to influence their recruitment in PIA during Pervez Musharraf's tenure, how these sisters influenced instructors and check pilots through favors of a personal nature as well as external pressures, their performance on the 777 including incidents for which they were responsible, and more.

However, without going into additional details, this Gilgit incident involving her wasn't a surprise at all - for its seeds were sown more than 17 years ago.
Last edited by SM on Sun Jul 28, 2019 2:50 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Abbas Ali
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Re: PIA ATR Incident at Gilgit Airport

Post by Abbas Ali »

^ Even the most experienced/skillful pilot can make mistake. Majority of aircraft accidents around the world occur due to pilot error.

Technical side of the incident should be discussed without defamatory/slanderous remarks against any individual.

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Re: PIA ATR Incident at Gilgit Airport

Post by TAILWIND »

Abbas Ali wrote:
Sun Jul 28, 2019 2:44 pm
^ Even the most experienced/skillful pilot can make mistake. Majority of aircraft accidents around the world occur due to pilot error.

Technical side of the incident should be discussed without defamatory/slanderous remarks against any individual.

Abbas
100% agreed and supported.