Mass Exodus

[R.F.]

Appologies had some problems editing, just refer to the latter post.

Thanks

[F.K]

yeah thats true , an exodus was also seen in the 80s where crew from the dc 10 ,b4 and 747 left for secondments abroad for the same reasons creating a shortage . my dad flew in emirates for 6 months also.
at present 777 crew is in demand world over with salaries in the band of 15000 us dollars and is strangely ironic that these pilots are reimbursing pia for their training costs to be given release letters . just prior to the 9 11 attacks a great chunk on the 310 was accepted in singapore airlines but the deal was terminated days before they were to start flying.
with the kind of flying they do it tells on their dropped faces they need to be accreditd accordingly. 3 -4 lacks for a 777 captain whose away atleast 15 days a month is not sufficient . even charter airlines pay more then that.

[R.F.]

[quote="R.F."]Due to the current and prevailing dismal situation in PIA regarding the working conditions, salary package etc. a mass exodus of pilots from PIA for greener pastures seems enevitable. The strange part is that inspite of the senior management being aware that a large number of pilots have left and many more have applied and contemplating a move to other airlines, there seems no effort to improve the situation/conditions.

Such exodus will result in a dire shortage of experienced pilots which is currently being faced world wide and will continue for years to come. In the Gulf itself with massive orders placed by Emirates,Qatar Airways,and Etihad along with the Low Cost carriers, demand for experienced pilots has shot up dramatically.
Where as PIA seems totally oblivious of this situation and continues to dwell in past self glory. Unless immediate measures are taken PIA will stand to loose in a big way and may at some point have to utilize the services of expatriate pilots as was done back in the late 1970's at a greater cost.
Private Airlines in Pakistan have a better salary package for new joiners as compared to PIA, and surely in view of the competition will enhance further to make it more realistic.[/quote]

[engineer]

deleted.

[Boeing 787]

3-4 lacs per month is hell of money. If you expect to give pilots $15000 per month i.e. 9 lacs, its humanly impossible. Well, PIA has best package in country. Someone told me that an airblue co-pilot earns around Rs.70000 while Fokker co-pilot earns Rs.100000. Well,still, I have failed to understand why doesn't PIA recruits ex-airforce pilots. My friend says that new-generation fresh pilots have first right.

[AirBlue]

It is 170,000 my friend

[R.F.]

Hello gentlemen,
First of all for the record Rupees 3-4 lakh /pm is a very high figure and quoted for a captain with 30 + years of service. Secondly these figures are based on a productivity allowance, which essentially means the more you fly the more you make.
The salary is based on a guarenteed flying allowance of 50 hours based on your number of years of service.
A start up F/O is makes around Rs. 45000/pm based on 50 hours guarenteed, any time he flies more than 50 he gets paid more, a number of complex variables are involved in calculating the package,however for simplification purposes a 50 hours guarenteed is taken as bench mark.

Ofcourse one gets paid more as an ex-pat pilot the reason being due to the inherent insecurity of him leaving his home country and work without any job security, no pension plan or provident fund schemes neither any post retirement medical benefits . Essentially what he saves is towards all those areas where an expat enviourement lacks. Since he's aware that he is expendible and a foriegn airline does not provide the laxity that he enjoys in his national carrier, therefore a sense of insecurity tends to creep in over the years.

Comming to the issue of why PIA does not employ ex-airforce personnel, well they do but with an age limit. After all an airline is a bussiness where huge investements are made in terms of man power as well. Hiring some one who is 50 or 55 years of age is of no advantage to the company where he can barely make it to a captain's position by virtue of age. Secondly it's not easy to indoctrinate a 50 year old military mind into a civilian mindset, where safety/economy comes first and 'Mission' accomplishement later.
Therefore a younger inexperienced pilot may he be from the military cadre or a civilian set up is easier to mould and in terms of investment a long haul one.

[F.K]

yes and that explains why a dc 10 captain of an airline that belongs to an impoverished country like bangladesh makes twice as much. pias salaries when contrasted to any airline are low. 3 - 4 lakh at a pilots career peak does not dovetail with his 30 -35 year trekking to get there specially in pia where the start off is a slow excruciating process with low salaries and less flying . infact this cousin of mine whose a fo on the 310 after 14 years of service has now finally started making 1 plus being stuck in the 5 figure bracket for so long, along with the fes that later became pilots. salaries are way too low and do not match the industrys average even remotely.
a new fokker fo does not make more then 45000 a month which by the way is a revised package for them. before the start off was somewhere in the region of 25-35. and private airlines like airblue do not send their crew on 10 day slips like pia sends its 777 crew. with almost 30 percent less flying these pilots could make nearly thrice as much in any decent airline of the world. for 8 straight years the salary of cockpit crew has remained frozen after the signing of the last contract in 1997 and now they are not willing to settle for anything but a 100 percent increcement which is much needed to avert an impending shortage specially on the 777 310 and also the 747 which are being flown world over with packages much higher then pias. and when airlines like singapore and emirates induct pilots a long term career plan is signed with retirement benefits too.

[behramjee]

my good friend in univ has an elder brother aged 23 with ZERO and I mean ZERO flying hours on an A 320...but a few hundred on small 10-12 seater planes.

7 months ago he applied to Air Deccan of India...a low cost airline mind you!!! Within 2 weeks he got a job offer with a starting First officer salary on an A 320 of IND RS 180,000 a month + 6 weeks free training in Toulouse by AIRBUS and EUR 100 a day allowance over there.

He has now been flying Air Deccans A 320s 5 days a week since Nov 20th on the BLR-BOM-DEL-BLR route.

If u ask me he was at the right place at the right time as Deccan and India desperately needed decent pilots...btw he too got an offer to join Jet Airways's B 737-800 fleet but they offered him RS 130,000 only for a FO whilst a LOW COST AIRLINE offered him RS 180,000 a month !!!

Another friend of mine who used to fly Canada 3000's A 332s in 2000-01 is now flying QRs A 330s to Africa and EU-UK and he told me that his salary is US $ 8500 a month TAX FREE + benefits and bonuses.

[R.F.]

Hi !
True Behramjee regarding the Indian salaries infact Kingfisher in India also has a very competitive package and there is another low cost comming up by the name of INDIGO with massive orders placed for the A320's, they're claiming to offer a better package then the rest.

By the way your C3000 friend wouldn't happen to be R.S. ex PIA with QR.

[GrandSlam]

Which Era are most of u guys living in???....45,000Rs for a Foker FO,HUH!!!!.....I wont quote the actual but its more than 70,000Rs...Now i need not to tell u the source....AB FOs are getting 70,000Rs without any other benefits but their Salaries will be increased to 97,000Rs shortly

[R.F.]

In terms of money value or buying power 70,000 has the same value as Rs.45000 did some years back. Regardless of the sum the salary will always revolve around a figure of $ 1000 or 1500, still far less than what is deserved.
When it does enhance remember to post it here, this is no here say or comming from one of my uncles in the company the higher lot has declined flatly any revision of the salary package presently.

Lets hope you're right but remember if you're flying for PIA then I suppose you're an entry level cadet or F/O, you'll spend your career just trying to beat the inflation hovering around $1000-1500 mark.

No offence meant though just an observation based on some years of experience.

[behramjee]

By the way your C3000 friend wouldn't happen to be R.S. ex PIA with QR.

his name is Rasheed...i dont know his last name though!

[F.K]

the net amount a fokker fo earns is not more then 45000. a 737 capt with around 18-20 years of service barely makes 1 so a fresh fo could nt draw anywhere near 70.

[cheetah]

I have heard similar numbers