Pakistan Postpones F-16 Purchases

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pakiaviator
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Pakistan Postpones F-16 Purchases

Post by pakiaviator »

Pakistan's President Pervez Musharraf says he will postpone the purchase of F-16 fighter planes from the US. President Musharraf said Pakistan needed to focus on relief and reconstruction work in the wake of the 8 October earthquake.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/4405818.stm


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I agree that we need $ for the relief efforts but I dont know if it will be a good idea to postpone. Who knows when again we will be able to get these, or may be there is something else going on that we dont know yet.... ??

wat u think guys....
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Valkyrie
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Post by Valkyrie »

I'd cancel it if I were him, quake or no quake. We don't need those planes (or should I say shackles) esp the list of "do's and dont's" they come with it not to mention the humiliation and hassle we went through the last time. Shame on you if you fooled me once, shame on me if you fooled me twice ( remember late 60's and 80's). I've spoken to people in the PAF, from a "Tail Choppers" pilot all the way to a Base Commander and they're all against it.

I'm not a religious person but maybe even God is against it. :roll: I'm aware its kind of bad to crack jokes esp with a disaster of such magnitide taking place. But its not in our interest to buy planes which are coming to the end of their lifespan or those that have had their capabilities detuned. We've a project of our own, its coming along well and lets keep working on it! :)
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Falcon598
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Post by Falcon598 »

I think it's a good thing. Pak really need to money to help the victims and reconstruction efforts. I don't think there is a real urgent need for these aircraft, but it will help update PAF fleet.
Che
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Post by Che »

Valkyrie wrote:I'd cancel it if I were him, quake or no quake. We don't need those planes (or should I say shackles) esp the list of "do's and dont's" they come with it not to mention the humiliation and hassle we went through the last time. Shame on you if you fooled me once, shame on me if you fooled me twice ( remember late 60's and 80's). I've spoken to people in the PAF, from a "Tail Choppers" pilot all the way to a Base Commander and they're all against it.

I'm not a religious person but maybe even God is against it. :roll: I'm aware its kind of bad to crack jokes esp with a disaster of such magnitide taking place. But its not in our interest to buy planes which are coming to the end of their lifespan or those that have had their capabilities detuned. We've a project of our own, its coming along well and lets keep working on it! :)
We surrendered our sovereignty and have been humiliated long before the possibility of new f-16s ever came about....Even if cancel or postpone the acquisition of teens, we'd be humiliated the same....So might as well accept a few goodies...

F-16s are still potent in our threat environment....they maybe reaching their operational life in the western countries, but what they will be up against in South Asia/Middle East, the lastest block f-16s will still be able to dominate the skies for a longtime to come....It is highly naive to think otherwise....
Amaad Lone
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Post by Amaad Lone »

Cancel the F-16s, concentrate on the joint venture with China.

Plus develop a strong missile deterent, after all what kept the Russians at bay in Europe, even with a 6 to 1 supperiority in tanks, troops and warplanes, the nuclear missiles.

Since we have that, I hardly think the Indians will try to creat a war situation with a nuclear neighbor.

Plus the most importantly lets develop better relations with India through public and trade contacts.

No one wants war when people are making money.

Not just the F-16s, but also the AWACS from Sweden.

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pakiaviator
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another school of thought

Post by pakiaviator »

there is a school of thought who says that India is following the foot steps of China, that is India wants to keep itself away from any potential conflict with neighboring countries (primarily Pakistan) so that it can focus on developing its economy (thx to the outsourcing revolution which started in 90's) also the same school says that its India's intention to take control of Pakistan through the business world (alo, pyaz to ham ab India say manga rahay hain) and destroy Pakistan's economy by becoming a GIANT in the region......

remember its always not wise to consider ur enemy weak, "india is afraid of us cz of nucelar capability = may be yes may be no" but dnt u think that India will seek alternatives to destroy Pakistan, cz afterall history tells us that "hindus and jews, can never be our friends, they have always had a hidden agenda in having friendships with muslims... atleast this is what history tells us.....
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Valkyrie
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Post by Valkyrie »

Che wrote:
Valkyrie wrote:I'd cancel it if I were him, quake or no quake. We don't need those planes (or should I say shackles) esp the list of "do's and dont's" they come with it not to mention the humiliation and hassle we went through the last time. Shame on you if you fooled me once, shame on me if you fooled me twice ( remember late 60's and 80's). I've spoken to people in the PAF, from a "Tail Choppers" pilot all the way to a Base Commander and they're all against it.

I'm not a religious person but maybe even God is against it. :roll: I'm aware its kind of bad to crack jokes esp with a disaster of such magnitide taking place. But its not in our interest to buy planes which are coming to the end of their lifespan or those that have had their capabilities detuned. We've a project of our own, its coming along well and lets keep working on it! :)
We surrendered our sovereignty and have been humiliated long before the possibility of new f-16s ever came about....Even if cancel or postpone the acquisition of teens, we'd be humiliated the same....So might as well accept a few goodies...

F-16s are still potent in our threat environment....they maybe reaching their operational life in the western countries, but what they will be up against in South Asia/Middle East, the lastest block f-16s will still be able to dominate the skies for a longtime to come....It is highly naive to think otherwise....
Post Cold War, off the shelf technology, the emergence and significant increase in the defence spending of India and China has lead to them having technologies that can rival almost anything the west has to offer. The West and Russia are also moving on from the F-15s,16s, Fulcrums and Flankers. Russia is already pushing for the PAK-FA, while the US is bringing the Raptors into service and the working on the JSF.

How exactly will the F-16s hold its own against the vastly superior MK/MKIs? and the quantative threat posed by the Mirage, Fulcrums, Bisons and Jaguars? Not to mention Pakistan's deal will not include the latest E/Fs versions and only a 3rd of them will be Blk52s, which made its debut 3yrs after the 1st Gulf War. The technology is over a decade old. Even the Blk52+ were comprehensively beaten by the MK/MKI's at Sindex, my neighbour (a sardarjee) piloted the KCs on that exercise. Face it, F-16s are given to US lackies or just to satisfy Arab vanity. Even lackies have a pecking order, of which Pakistan lies right at the bottom.

Leaving your naivity aside, you might recall the last time we ordered the Blk15s they were detuned to the point where they were only slightly better than the ADF versions. No Sparrows or HARMS (as much as some websites would love to claim) and we had to get our own targetting pods from France. There were no force multipliers like Tankers and AWACS.
Hell, if it wasn't for the Soviets/Republican fascination with each other we wouldn't even have them today. Carter was throwing only F-5s and A-10s at Pakistan.
No one wants war when people are making money.
and no one wants a war where people make money from it...
Che
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Post by Che »

Valkyrie,

I disagree block 60s with AESA, amraams, AIM-9X, CFTs, standoff weapons, advanced electronic-warfare mgmt systm, sensors and etc. would be able to hold its own against anything thrown out by the MKIs...

All the fancy maneuvers of MKIs look good in the airshows in clean configuration, but loaded with weapons and fuel, they become beyond the flight envelope. Plus I would put my money on western electronics over Russian any day.

We need to maintain a minimum conventional deterrence, despite attaining parity in the non-conventional realm, so as to prevent India or anybody else for that matter from starting a conflict or harming our assets in a strictly conventional environment. We don't wanna be going to all out nuclear war over such incidents as the shooting down of PN Atlantique by IAF. If that Atlantique had a single block-60 escort, those pesky MiG-21s or even the MKIs of the IAF would have kept a safe distance.Or if NA thugs/druglords gets too adventurous and conduct a few terrorist attacks in Pakistan, as they have in the past, a few standoffs up their behinds would be a nice way to get back to them.
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Post by GrandSlam »

In my opinion Pakistan shud spend more on its economy then buying new advance weapons,we have the nuclear weapons and that is the main reason Indians are reluctant to show an offensive strategy towards us,Pakistan shud strive hard to become an economical power of the region,We have the example of USSR in front of us,They spent large part of their budget on acquiring advance weapons but then at the end wat happened,USSR Broke down without even firing a single shell,Their economy had been getting weeker and weeker due to the large percentage of their budget being spent on Defence and eventually the economy collapsed,21st Century Wars r the wars of Economy not the wars of weapons
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Valkyrie
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Post by Valkyrie »

Che, what makes you think Pakistan will be getting Blk60s, AESA or AMRAAMs? Why would you need the Blk60's to put off a couple of Mig-21MFs? Why would the US want to offer E/F versions to a short term friend? Blk60's and all were on offer to the Indians at Aero-India. Just like how they tried to sell the upgraded Starfighters to India in the early 60's and Pakistan was left with ex-USAF/ROCAF "A" models. India chose the Mig-21FL over the Lightning and Starfighter and went on to reap huge rewards in 1971. While the situation became so bad for the PAF that half of the No.9s were made up of MirageIIIEPs to make up for the war losses of the Starfighter.

The Russian didn't want to match the American's in the Cold War, they wanted to defeat them. What they lacked in sophisication they made up for it in brute strength, the American's found that out when Balenko landed his Mig-25 at Hakodate. Initial American jokes about primitive soviet technology were laid to rest when they found its "primitive" radar was strong enough to burn through any American jammer.

MKI's have alot of western/israeli input along with Russian technology, having a 300km+ radar range, it wouldn't even need to execute those "Kulbit" or "Cobra" manouvers you'd see at the airshow. Plans are already in place to equip the MKI with AESA by 2009 at the latest. Infact some Flankers even have a backward facing radar, which is more powerful than the F-7Ps forward facing radars.

Whatever the case, I sure as hell think its a waste of time and money to blow up some NA "techincals" with a standoff missile. Any dumb iron bombed would do.

Postponing the F-16 deal is a gimmick, its not like the money will be diverted to the Kashmiris who need it.