PM Seeks Report on Pilots With Forged Educational Documents and Pilot Licences Issued by CAA in Dubious Manner

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TAILWIND
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Re: PM Seeks Report on Pilots With Forged Educational Documents and Pilot Licences Issued by CAA in Dubious Manner

Post by TAILWIND »

Abbas Ali wrote:
Wed Jul 01, 2020 10:29 pm
According to news sources, at today's federal cabinet meeting:

Pakistan Foreign Minister Shah Mahmood Qureshi and Federal Minister for Planning and Development Asad Umar expressed reservations over the way the issue of pilots' licence was handled.

Poor handling of the issue brought bad name and embarrassment for Pakistan, the two ministers opined.

Abbas
Lets admit this is a very complicated issue. A hot potato. Could not brush it under the carpet. There is a famous Urdu proverb, 'na jai mannad na pai raftan". Hence it required a very careful, intelligent and well thought out strategy to mitigate the potential consequences.
First and foremost, things are drastically wrong at CAA. Yes it is partially due to political interference/appointees past and present but what about the collective responsibilities of the org and its senior management. Its they who share the prime responsibility of safeguard the sanctity and credibility of all licences and certifications issued by them, sadly they failed.
I am of the opinion that there could have been better options to tackle it. For example keep it separate from the ongoing focus on A320 crash. Complete the investigation into all cases, finalize the list of genuine culprits, initiate complete the disciplinary action, and mitigating measures at CAA and then make it public by taking major agencies like ICAO/FAA/EASA into confidence.
Similarly, use of correct language, phrases and words is very important especially for people at senior and responsible positions. In my opinion, there was no "fake or Jaali" licence as declared by the minister in assembly. In fact the issue is use of unfair means/proxy while attempting the written papers. However the minister in his exuberance went too far in his declaration, perhaps not knowing its implications beyond our borders. He most probably found it a good opportunity to put past regimes in dock and highlighting the difficult situation present govt is facing due to past mistakes/corruption and efforts they are making to remedy.
In my humble opinion respectable minister jumped the gun a bit.


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Re: PM Seeks Report on Pilots With Forged Educational Documents and Pilot Licences Issued by CAA in Dubious Manner

Post by Wasilk »

Prove yourselves otherwise. It isn't as if the culture of nepotism, corruption and general laziness is unknown to all. You blame the Air Marshall for being the cause of the downfall, remind us the brilliant performance of PIA under the various captains who have headed the organization.

Na bathroom chaltay hain, na seats theek hain. Na punctuality hai. Akaar asmaan per aur salary emirates k equal chaiyhe.
[/quote]

EXACTLY!!!!

Wasilk
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Re: PM Seeks Report on Pilots With Forged Educational Documents and Pilot Licences Issued by CAA in Dubious Manner

Post by Wasilk »

Khurramc wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 6:17 pm
Indeed about time this corrupt and cancer ridden organisation and the corruption that exists within is exposed to entire world.
Hats off to the minister for having balls and courage to expose the list and taking ownership in admitting that this has existed.
Well done Sir. I hope further action is taken and this mafia and rogue members of PALPA are dealt with the force and vigour of law. Shame on them and CAA.

And those still defending it, time to look in mirror and perhaps subject yourselves to self reflection as to where you actually stand and may be about time to gauge your own ethics. Without naming members, it is clearly evident from few particular members’ posts that they would more than likely be serving members of PALPA and their names would be on the list.

Like they say “ dair hai andhair nah”......time has caught up to your shameful acts.
ABSOLUTELY SPOT ON! SO APTLY PUT!
I am utterly appalled, speechless and in sheer disbelief that certain members here have the audacity to actually defend whatever is going on with an uncanny sense of delusion and not a single grain of shame.

Whatever is happening and has happened is more than crystal clear. The dynamics of the circumstances being extremely corrupt that have led to the present reality, and the severely morally inept and incompetent goons who are responsible of shaping these circumstances are all too well-known and always have been out there. What is tremendously unfathomable is the shameless defensiveness and denying and twisting of the reality because clearly such individuals have benefited immeasurably from these increasingly pathetic state of affairs.

No more..time has indeed caught up with your shameful acts, and hopefully, this is merely the beginning.

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Re: PM Seeks Report on Pilots With Forged Educational Documents and Pilot Licences Issued by CAA in Dubious Manner

Post by A310 »

The general sentiment is heavily anti pilots on this forum. I respect that given everyone is entitled to their opinions. But then so am I. Not going to quote anyone as I read multiple posts but some of them are problematic. Firstly, you are delusional if you praise the minister for blowing the whistle like that. The timing was wrong. Not that this matter should’ve remained under the carpet for another year, but maybe some other parliament session? Even a week before the session dedicated to crashes was acceptable. It looked like the Minister himself wanted PIA to shut down. Now that two Ministers also agree to this some forum members will bash them too. Lets come to the list and I mentioned this previously too that out of 141 only 90 were currently operational and serving PIA. The rest included retired, deceased, already grounded since 2 years and lastly those who had already left PIA. Why sensationalise? Even if he wanted to call this out in such a manner, the list should’ve been verified a 1000 times given Pakistan’s reputation was at stake. Some names were wrong, some P numbers too. Is that how it is done? Even the 28 who weren’t flying since a couple of years, why name them again? Just to achieve a big ass figure? Even if you want to name them then tell the world that they’re not flying? Why use the word ‘fake’? I understand that he’s an illiterate but he could’ve used someone else’s help? Just like those 28 were investigated thoroughly without making much noise in the media, what happened now? Now let’s come to the Minister Sarwar himself. What a f**king hypocrite because he himself has fake degree on which he got a stay order from court. Is this the guy who should be doing this? Please go read my previous posts and you’ll see that I’ve mentioned it so many times that this CEO is trying to find a way to hire ex Shaheen pilots. And this is what they’re doing now. Is there even a need for more pilots. From this list of 141, only 20 were currently operational on the 320s as Captains. No one knows how many of them will be cleared so whats the rush then? Does PIA have the funds to train them all because its been 2 years since they’re grounded and they’ll need full transition training. If they want to invest in complete training then hire cadet pilots? In terms of returns to investment they’ll be more productive and have a long career with PIA instead of these Shaheen pilots who can only serve for another 5 years or so. I am amazed at you all for not being able to see this hypocrisy. Someone wrote ke ‘akaar aasmaan pe’. This doesn’t look nice when you’re supporting someone from the armed forces against ‘bloody civilians’. Coming to how the remaining ‘genuine’ pilots are stressed and people saying that if they haven’t done anything wrong then why stress out. Most of the 777 captains and a few on 320 are on contract. And given the Europe/UK ban the requirement for pilots has definitely dropped. Toronto ban is also inevitable and USA will also withdraw the direct flights permission they wouldn’t even let you step on their soil. UAE has also put in several restrictions regarding time slots. This all means further huge losses for PIA and potential layoffs too. The first to be the target of these layoffs will be pilots on contract. Perhaps a good enough reason to freak out? Or do you think of pilots as robots? If you think this was an acceptable let alone best way to handle this matter, then then it is useless to argue with you.

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Re: PM Seeks Report on Pilots With Forged Educational Documents and Pilot Licences Issued by CAA in Dubious Manner

Post by Abbas Ali »

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Civil Aviation Authority of Malaysia (CAAM) is seeking information on Pakistani pilots employed by aircraft operators in Malaysia.

Currently all operators are required to temporarily suspend Pakistani pilot licence holders from operating flights until verification of licence by Pakistan Civil Aviation Authority (CAA).

If Pakistan CAA is unable to verify licence, CAAM will have no option but to revoke their licence (Malaysian validation or licence conversion).

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Re: PM Seeks Report on Pilots With Forged Educational Documents and Pilot Licences Issued by CAA in Dubious Manner

Post by Abbas Ali »

Federal Minister for Maritime Affairs Syed Ali Haider Zaidi at a press conference in Islamabad today informed that modern technology has been introduced to prevent malpractices in pilot examinations conducted by Pakistan CAA.

Measures taken include:

* Biometrics/fingerprint verification of pilot examination paper candidate before entry into examination hall. This is to prevent someone else from appearing in examination hall instead of actual candidate.

* Surveillance cameras in examination hall for video recording of candidates appearing in pilots examinations.

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Re: PM Seeks Report on Pilots With Forged Educational Documents and Pilot Licences Issued by CAA in Dubious Manner

Post by iTechno8 »

Abbas Ali wrote:
Thu Jul 02, 2020 5:45 pm
Federal Minister for Maritime Affairs Syed Ali Haider Zaidi at a press conference in Islamabad today informed that modern technology has been introduced to prevent malpractices in pilot examinations conducted by Pakistan CAA.

Measures taken include:

* Biometrics/fingerprint verification of pilot examination paper candidate before entry into examination hall. This is to prevent someone else from appearing in examination hall instead of actual candidate.

* Surveillance cameras in examination hall for video recording of candidates appearing in pilots examinations.

Abbas
These were already in place in the CAA Licensing office examination hall in Karachi since 2019, what's new in it?
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Re: PM Seeks Report on Pilots With Forged Educational Documents and Pilot Licences Issued by CAA in Dubious Manner

Post by Abbas Ali »

^ Federal Minister for Maritime Affairs Syed Ali Haider Zaidi said that these measures to prevent malpractices in CAA examinations were introduced by the current government that came to power in August 2018.

54 suspect/dubious pilot licences were suspended after the current government came to power, he said. Forensic inquiry was launched to investigate licences issued since 2010 when a new computerized licencing system was introduced.

He said that computerized licencing system introduced in 2010 was without strong security/firewall/password system that was a reason for irregularities in pilots licences. The current government has strengthened security of computerized licencing system (firewall/password etc.) to prevent hacking, he said.

The minister provided following list of suspect/dubious pilot licences issued from 2010 to 2018.

Year 2010 - 8 suspect/dubious pilot licences
Year 2011 - 20 suspect/dubious pilot licences
Year 2012 - 28 suspect/dubious pilot licences
Year 2013 - 20 suspect/dubious pilot licences
Year 2014 - 12 suspect/dubious pilot licences
Year 2015 - 25 suspect/dubious pilot licences
Year 2016 - 39 suspect/dubious pilot licences
Year 2017 - 46 suspect/dubious pilot licences
Year 2018 - 38 suspect/dubious pilot licences

Total: 236 suspect/dubious pilot licences from 2010 to 2018.

Minister for Information and Broadcasting Senator Shibli Faraz said that now only pilots with authentic/undisputed licences are operating aircraft of Pakistani airlines and passengers should feel safe.

Abbas
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TAILWIND
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Re: PM Seeks Report on Pilots With Forged Educational Documents and Pilot Licences Issued by CAA in Dubious Manner

Post by TAILWIND »

Abbas Ali wrote:
Thu Jul 02, 2020 6:35 pm

......
He said that computerized licencing system introduced in 2010 was without strong security/firewall/password system that was a reason for irregularities in pilots licences. The current government has strengthened security of computerized licencing system (firewall/password etc.) to prevent hacking, he said.
Even a small company/business would put in place required safeguards and security in their IT system/cash register. Why CAA did not do it on introduction of this new system.

The minister provided following list of suspect/dubious pilot licences issued from 2010 to 2018.

Year 2010 - 8 suspect/dubious pilot licences
Year 2011 - 20 suspect/dubious pilot licences
Year 2012 - 28 suspect/dubious pilot licences
Year 2013 - 20 suspect/dubious pilot licences
Year 2014 - 12 suspect/dubious pilot licences
Year 2015 - 25 suspect/dubious pilot licences
Year 2016 - 39 suspect/dubious pilot licences
Year 2017 - 46 suspect/dubious pilot licences
Year 2018 - 38 suspect/dubious pilot licences

Total: 236 suspect/dubious pilot licences from 2010 to 2018.

Minister for Information and Broadcasting Senator Shibli Faraz said that now only pilots with authentic/undisputed licences are operating aircraft of Pakistani airlines and passengers should feel safe.

Abbas
Can we have the names of DGCAA and Dy DGs during these years? Ultimate responsibility rests on their shoulders.

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Re: PM Seeks Report on Pilots With Forged Educational Documents and Pilot Licences Issued by CAA in Dubious Manner

Post by baberblues »

Absolutely shocking, I am glad PIA has been banned. However legitimate pakistani pilots have been disgraced. This would be used as an excuse for many airlines to sack pakistani pilots to save their money under Covid19.

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Re: PM Seeks Report on Pilots With Forged Educational Documents and Pilot Licences Issued by CAA in Dubious Manner

Post by Abbas Ali »

Etihad Airways auditing Pakistan-issued pilot licences amid concerns.

https://www.arabnews.pk/node/1698971/pakistan

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ammad
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Re: PM Seeks Report on Pilots With Forged Educational Documents and Pilot Licences Issued by CAA in Dubious Manner

Post by ammad »

TAILWIND wrote:
Thu Jul 02, 2020 10:16 pm

Can we have the names of DGCAA and Dy DGs during these years? Ultimate responsibility rests on their shoulders.
Spot on. That's where the issue is. Problem in Pakistan is that regulatory institutes are corrupt and no body talks about it.

Most of this mess is due to inept CAA that brew over the years and now erupted. -- Until the head of CAA is questioned including current and former heads about prevalent malpractices , this issue is not going to be resolved.
Fortune favours brave.

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Re: PM Seeks Report on Pilots With Forged Educational Documents and Pilot Licences Issued by CAA in Dubious Manner

Post by ammad »

Loose cannon remarks by Federal minister are causing issues for 100 + Professional Pakistani pilots working with EK, EY, Vietnam, Malaysian, Oman air and potentially many others.

Any Quality professional working out side of Pakistan is an asset and this is dilemma of Pakistan that in general Pakistan did produce less percentage of quality professionals compare to total population.

In my opinion and in general these 100+ pilots puts great time and efforts and are quality professionals to land Jobs in EK, EY, and other airlines where competition is pouring in from all over the world.

I remember same issue happen with doctors serving in KSA, where loose cannon doctor registering authority send note to Saudi Authorities that many of the doctors of Pakistani origin are not registered with their professional body hence illegal causing massive layoffs and deportation of Pakistani doctors.
Fortune favours brave.

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Re: PM Seeks Report on Pilots With Forged Educational Documents and Pilot Licences Issued by CAA in Dubious Manner

Post by TAILWIND »

ammad wrote:
Fri Jul 03, 2020 5:33 am
Loose cannon remarks by Federal minister ,,,,,,
Suicide bomber is a more appropriate description,

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Re: PM Seeks Report on Pilots With Forged Educational Documents and Pilot Licences Issued by CAA in Dubious Manner

Post by Abbas Ali »

According to Dunya News:

CEO PIA says that the issue of fake pilot licences could have been handled in a better way. Unfortunately, the issue went into wrong direction.

Proposals being given to the Government of Pakistan to reform Pakistan CAA. A department was responsible for the entire issue.

CEO PIA hopeful of removing European Union apprehensions.

Meanwhile, PALPA has decided to go to the court on fake pilot licences issue. Services of renowned lawyers will be sought. PALPA members asked to make financial contribution.

On the other hand, Aviation Minister Ghulam Sarwar Khan says that pilots with dubious licences will be dismissed and court proceedings will be initiated against them. Show cause notices have been issued to thirty more pilots with dubious licences.

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Abbas
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