PM Seeks Report on Pilots With Forged Educational Documents and Pilot Licences Issued by CAA in Dubious Manner

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Abbas Ali
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Re: PM Seeks Report on Pilots With Forged Educational Documents and Pilot Licences Issued by CAA in Dubious Manner

Post by Abbas Ali »

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PIA has grounded 141 pilots with dubious/suspicious licences reported/listed by Aviation Division. 17 of these pilots were already grounded by PIA management since January 2019.

A PALPA spokesperson is also in the list of pilots with dubious/suspicious licences, according to news sources.

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PIA management has also informed ambassadors of various countries in Pakistan about grounding of these pilots.

PIA letter written to US Ambassador Paul W. Jones to Pakistan. Note mistake "Embassy of United States of Pakistan".

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The ambassadors have been informed that:

* PIA has grounded pilots with suspicious licences with immediate effect.

* It is also ensured that all pilots flying PIA flights are having genuine licences endorsed by the Government of Pakistan and are in physical possession of the same during all domestic and international flights.

* It is affirmed that PIA shall remain compliant with all international aviation safety and regulatory standards.

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Meanwhile, Kuwait Airways has grounded Pakistani national 7 pilots and 56 aircraft engineers.

Airlines of Qatar, Oman and Vietnam also preparing list of Pakistani national pilots and aircraft engineers for scrutiny.

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Re: PM Seeks Report on Pilots With Forged Educational Documents and Pilot Licences Issued by CAA in Dubious Manner

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Re: PM Seeks Report on Pilots With Forged Educational Documents and Pilot Licences Issued by CAA in Dubious Manner

Post by Abbas Ali »

Cartoon in June 27 edition of English daily DAWN.

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Re: PM Seeks Report on Pilots With Forged Educational Documents and Pilot Licences Issued by CAA in Dubious Manner

Post by Abbas Ali »

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CEO PIA in a letter to Secretary Aviation has requested double checking/review of the list of pilots with dubious licences.

According to the letter:

There are some serious anomalies in the list with respect to names of pilots, airlines they are serving, reference number and personnel numbers of pilots mentioned.

It is therefore, requested that the data furnished in the said list may please be double checked and shared with PIA.

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Re: PM Seeks Report on Pilots With Forged Educational Documents and Pilot Licences Issued by CAA in Dubious Manner

Post by raihans »

the list of PIA pilots gone viral, where is the list of Airblue, defunct Shaheen Air & Serene Air pilots that are mentioned suspected as well? And those serving the remaining aviation industry having suspicion?
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Re: PM Seeks Report on Pilots With Forged Educational Documents and Pilot Licences Issued by CAA in Dubious Manner

Post by Abdulrafeysiddiqui »

Abbas Ali wrote: Fri Jun 26, 2020 9:55 pm
  • 121 pilots with 1 bogus/forged CAA exam paper result
121 pilots is a great number. I wonder that is that 1 paper is of same type or of different types which the pilots couldn't pass.

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Re: PM Seeks Report on Pilots With Forged Educational Documents and Pilot Licences Issued by CAA in Dubious Manner

Post by baberblues »

I am shocked, imagine if foreign airline pakistani pilots are found to have fake licences? disgraceful on these pilots.

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Re: PM Seeks Report on Pilots With Forged Educational Documents and Pilot Licences Issued by CAA in Dubious Manner

Post by adamalikhan »

What is the link which shows these pilots alleged to have forged documents in the various airlines?
There seems to be lots of mentioning of this but cannot locate the same.

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Re: PM Seeks Report on Pilots With Forged Educational Documents and Pilot Licences Issued by CAA in Dubious Manner

Post by Jamshed »

By looking into the viral list of PIA 141 suspected pilots, I noticed the following;

1. Serial No. 23 - "Muhammad Salehyar Janjua" most probably the pilot who was flying AP-BHO PK-661 which crashed near Haveliyan.
2. Serial No 3 - "Yahya Mussawar Sandila" was the pilot of AP-BKY PK-517 accident at Panjgur airport.
3. Serial No. 118 - "Maryam Masood" was the pilot of AP-BHP PK-605 accident at Gilgit airport.
4. Serial No. 115 & 118 - "Erum Masood" & "Maryam Masood" are the sister pilots, appeared many times in PIA social media campaigns.
5. Serial No. 61 - "Huma Liaqat" is the young lady pilot appeared on social media with her selfies onboard PIA aircraft cockpit, and later appeared in PIA social media campaigns.
6. Serial No. 140 - "Jahanzeb Khan" most probably, the same pilot designated as PIA DGM SMS.

There maybe something incorrect in this, but this is what I extracted from the Google.
Last edited by Jamshed on Sun Jun 28, 2020 2:19 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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Re: PM Seeks Report on Pilots With Forged Educational Documents and Pilot Licences Issued by CAA in Dubious Manner

Post by Abbas Ali »

In a presser on Saturday, the Pakistan Airline Pilots Association (PALPA) president said the list of suspect pilots was meant “to defame pilots and divert attention from the air crash.”

“Thirty-nine pilots in the list are not associated with PIA, the data of 36 others is completely wrong, whereas the cases of six pilots are pending in the court,” PALPA president Captain Chaudhry Salman told reporters at the Karachi Press Club. “The authenticity of this list is suspected.”

The PALPA president said pilots had received no warnings before the Aviation Division grounded them: “No show-cause was ever issued to the pilot. This clearly shows that PCAA and PIA have completely failed.”

Pilot licenses are assessed by the Pakistan Civil Aviation Authority (PCAA) every six months, Salman said, adding that to date all but 17 pilots on the list had valid licenses.

“We challenge this list with highly questionable and unrealistic content and urge upon the Chief Justice to form an inquiry commission and suspend the officials at Pakistan Civil Aviation Authority (PSAA) and PIA,” Salman said.

The Aviation Division says it stands by its list.

Abdul Sattar Khokhar, joint secretary of the Aviation Division, said the released list was correct.

“All 141 pilots in the list have been found to have suspect licenses,” Khokhar told Arab News, adding that it was possible one or two of the pilots named in the list used to fly with PIA but had since moved on to other airlines.

Source: Arab News
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Re: PM Seeks Report on Pilots With Forged Educational Documents and Pilot Licences Issued by CAA in Dubious Manner

Post by Abbas Ali »

Media reports of Pakistani pilots grounded by Kuwait Airways over suspicious/dubious licences are not true.

Kuwait Airways does not have Pakistani national pilots, according to statement issued by the airline.



Kuwait Airways has 13 Pakistani national aircraft engineers who have qualifications verified by aviation organizations.



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Re: PM Seeks Report on Pilots With Forged Educational Documents and Pilot Licences Issued by CAA in Dubious Manner

Post by baberblues »

it is absolutely embarrassing for Pakistanis to now see foreign airlines having to declare how many pilots etc they have who is fake and who is not, it really is an international embarrassment.

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Re: PM Seeks Report on Pilots With Forged Educational Documents and Pilot Licences Issued by CAA in Dubious Manner

Post by SM »

Mashallah, all Pakistani super heroes and heroines made the list. See it for yourself:
https://en.baaghitv.com/suspected-pia-p ... -the-list/


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Re: PM Seeks Report on Pilots With Forged Educational Documents and Pilot Licences Issued by CAA in Dubious Manner

Post by Shershah Ahmed »

This list in itself is dubious and has already proven to be. Even the PIA management has written to the Aviation Division about serious discrepancies in this list regarding names, P numbers and CAA reference numbers. Right at the top it says two people have 9 suspected ATPL exams. There are only 8 ATPL exams.

Also, there are people on this list whose reference numbers are wrong, P numbers are wrong, are retired, dont even have ATPL's or are dead. How can you say 141 pilots have been grounded when many of them cannot even have this grounding applied to them.

There are of course people on this list with dubious license acquisition in terms of the way the exams were faked/taken. The list however is quite inaccurate, and for those harping on about 'fake licenses', the licenses themselves are very real. The way they were obtained, well that is another matter which needs strict action. Action that is long overdue, both in the airlines, general aviation and CAA itself. Don't take me wrong, action against the guilty is needed.

But there is a difference between taking action, and hurriedly publishing a list in a day and getting it all wrong. Throwing people who are innocent under the bus, and defaming Pakistan's entire aviation industry in order to catch the bad eggs is not the way to do it. Moreover, suspending a few junior clerical staff members in CAA does not absolve them of their actions. They issued these licences, they conducted exams in a dubious manner and this has been going on for a lot longer than it has been in the limelight.

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Re: PM Seeks Report on Pilots With Forged Educational Documents and Pilot Licences Issued by CAA in Dubious Manner

Post by A310 »

^Exactly.

People are calling out pilots who were part of an incident and are on the list too. One sad instance is of Capt. Salehyar Janjua (Late). Yes he was operating PK-661 but the P-number mentioned against his name is of another pilot named Janjua. Are we supposed to believe such a list?
A B777 captain who joined PIA in 90 has been grounded because of his CPL. Please tell me how? Then there are pilots who have either passed away or retired. Some of those on the list are serving other airlines and are aren’t a part of PIA anymore. Why are all of them listed as PIA pilots? All I can see is a malicious intent to defame pilots and Pakistan. Of the 141 listed, only 90 were currently operational and serving PIA. Exaggeration much?

Now lets come to the main issue which will soon be proven. The 17 PIA pilots who were grounded previously was because they were supposedly in Toronto at the time their ATPL exam was attempted. Totally fair grounds to ground them and I do believe they seeked unethical means to clear exams and do deserve punishment.

The pilots in this list have been grounded because they supposed on flight pattern while their exam was attempted. Let me give an example. Lets say a Karachi based pilot arrived Islamabad from London and will get a domestic layover at ISB before returning dead-heading(as a passenger) to his base KHI. This is the official flight pattern. However, if a pilot has completed his operating flight then he can return to his base on any flight available. This could be before the assigned flight. If a flight to KHI was available on the same day/night of his arrival at Islamabad then he could proceed on that flight. It is up to him to either proceed on assigned flight or sny other flight. The insufficient rest theory applies when pilots are proceeding as a passenger to another base BEFORE operating a flight. Insufficient rest AFTER a flight is his headache and no one is at any risk because of that.

Just because flight patternS showed them to be in another city doesn’t justify suspension in any way. Mind you, all of them were in Pakistan at that time. No one has been suspended for being in another country as was the case of those 17 pilots. Evidence will come out which includes tickets, SUBLO register, passenger manifest and flight logs. Almost all of them will be proven innocent. Can’t say everyone because there could be a few legit cases but so disappointed at the unprofessional attitude shown by Aviation minister.

In another news, DXB has restricted flight slots for PIA because of this news. Even though only ‘genuine’ pilots are currently operating flights.