PIA Lahore to Karachi Airbus A320 Flight Crashes

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TAILWIND
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Re: PIA Lahore to Karachi Airbus A320 Flight Crashes

Post by TAILWIND »

PALPA comedy continues non stop. The day before, their secy general (Capt Sanjarani or similar name) on a TV show stated that the crashed acft had out dated software which brought it at 9000 feet at 10 miles instead of 3000 feet, otherwise how would an experience pilot do this.
Wouldn't have believed , had I not listened/watched it myself.
what a pity


Hassan777
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Re: PIA Lahore to Karachi Airbus A320 Flight Crashes

Post by Hassan777 »

TAILWIND wrote:
Thu Jun 25, 2020 8:59 am
PALPA comedy continues non stop. The day before, their secy general (Capt Sanjarani or similar name) on a TV show stated that the crashed acft had out dated software which brought it at 9000 feet at 10 miles instead of 3000 feet, otherwise how would an experience pilot do this.
Wouldn't have believed , had I not listened/watched it myself.
what a pity
Yes absolutely PALPA is making a joke of itself yesterday in an interview PALPA’s Mister imran narejo said and i quote” Pilots never prefer destinations to fly to, we are paid a base salary regardless of destination and flight” and yet he continued to say me and other pilots have already seen the whole world, yes! By pressuring the airline to give some powerful pilots the good routes, anyone inside PIA know how PK-721 to JFK was their golden hen, Even if this is irrelevant to the crash it still shows how PALPA hides information for it’s face saving and benefits.

A310
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Re: PIA Lahore to Karachi Airbus A320 Flight Crashes

Post by A310 »

Hassan777 wrote:
Thu Jun 25, 2020 12:45 pm
TAILWIND wrote:
Thu Jun 25, 2020 8:59 am
PALPA comedy continues non stop. The day before, their secy general (Capt Sanjarani or similar name) on a TV show stated that the crashed acft had out dated software which brought it at 9000 feet at 10 miles instead of 3000 feet, otherwise how would an experience pilot do this.
Wouldn't have believed , had I not listened/watched it myself.
what a pity
Yes absolutely PALPA is making a joke of itself yesterday in an interview PALPA’s Mister imran narejo said and i quote” Pilots never prefer destinations to fly to, we are paid a base salary regardless of destination and flight” and yet he continued to say me and other pilots have already seen the whole world, yes! By pressuring the airline to give some powerful pilots the good routes, anyone inside PIA know how PK-721 to JFK was their golden hen, Even if this is irrelevant to the crash it still shows how PALPA hides information for it’s face saving and benefits.
Ya he wasn’t wrong. Pilots of his seniority or if simply put then all Captains have seen the whole world by virtue of flying A310/B777 as First Officers. PK 721 wasn’t too special, all Toronto flights also had the same incentive. And all Atlantic cleared pilots could at max operate 03 LR flights in 2 months. This was a restriction in place.

x_man
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Re: PIA Lahore to Karachi Airbus A320 Flight Crashes

Post by x_man »

Is there a single video or instance where PALPA has accepted and acknowledged that it was mainly the Pilot error that brought the 8303 down?

If not, then shame on them.

Hassan777
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Re: PIA Lahore to Karachi Airbus A320 Flight Crashes

Post by Hassan777 »

@A310

What bother me is that why would he hide the fact that pilots get allowances and incentives according to their flights , he just made it sound like a pilot could fly for 10-12 hours many times a month and still get their base salary.

awasi
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Re: PIA Lahore to Karachi Airbus A320 Flight Crashes

Post by awasi »

TAILWIND wrote:
Thu Jun 25, 2020 8:59 am
PALPA comedy continues non stop. The day before, their secy general (Capt Sanjarani or similar name) on a TV show stated that the crashed acft had out dated software which brought it at 9000 feet at 10 miles instead of 3000 feet, otherwise how would an experience pilot do this.
Wouldn't have believed , had I not listened/watched it myself.
what a pity
Buddy what else would you expect. If 40% of the pilots are holding fake licenses, its very likely that PALPA officers are holding fake licenses as well. So in order to save themselves they have to save all the pilots. The entire approach was unstable and only a clueless pilot is going to do what the pilot of flight 8303 did.

ammad
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Re: PIA Lahore to Karachi Airbus A320 Flight Crashes

Post by ammad »

Link to report:
Not sure if it is posted earlier.

https://www.caapakistan.co m.pk/Upload/SIBReports/AAIB-431.pdf
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Abbas Ali
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Re: PIA Lahore to Karachi Airbus A320 Flight Crashes

Post by Abbas Ali »

PIA announcement in June 26 newspaper:

Announcement

Pakistan International Airlines (PIA) and all it employees are deeply grieved at the tragic accident of PIA flight PK8303 of May 22, 2020, near Karachi Airport and offer their heartfelt condolences to the bereaved families of all passengers and crew members and others who lost their precious lives in the incident. May the departed souls rest in eternal peace and Allah Almighty receive them in His infinite mercy and provide solace to the bereaved families to bear this irreparable loss of precious lives of their loved ones. We are also equally concerned about all those who were injured in this tragedy as well as the damage caused to movable and immovable property due to this unfortunate incident.

PIA through this public notice intends to announce that compensation payments as per the applicable law shall be paid to the bereaved families whose loved ones lost their lives and to those whose movable and immovable property has been damaged in this accident.

In this regard legal heirs of the deceased and the owners of the damaged movable or immovable property may kindly contact along with the required documents to the below listed focal points for processing their claims.

In case any further information or assistance is required by the legal heirs of deceased or the injured or the owners of the damaged property, please contact the following officers of PIA.

Urdu version.
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English version.
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imiakhtar
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Re: PIA Lahore to Karachi Airbus A320 Flight Crashes

Post by imiakhtar »

I would urge anyone affected by this crash to refuse any compensation offered as above and insist on settlement according to montreal convention terms. Pakistan/PIA is bound by this convention:

E. DEATH OR INJURY OF PASSENGERS

The carrier is liable for damage sustained in case of death or bodily injury of a passenger upon condition only that the accident which caused the death or injury took place on board the aircraft or in the course of any of the operations of embarking or disembarking.
[Article 17(1) of The Montreal Convention, 1999 / Rule 17 (1) of The Fourth Schedule of Carriage by Air Act, 2012]
The airline liability is as per Article 21 of The Montreal Convention, 1999 / Rule 21 of The Fourth Schedule of Carriage by Air Act, 2012.


This sum currently stands at 128 821 special drawing right which equals 177 854 USD

https://www.icao.int/secretariat/legal/ ... _1999.aspx
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Abbas Ali
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Re: PIA Lahore to Karachi Airbus A320 Flight Crashes

Post by Abbas Ali »

^ Isn't Montreal Convention for international flights?

PK8303 was a domestic flight.

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imiakhtar
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Re: PIA Lahore to Karachi Airbus A320 Flight Crashes

Post by imiakhtar »

When I worked for Ba, our domestic (shuttle) flights were covered. Depends on local CAA regs
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Abbas Ali
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Re: PIA Lahore to Karachi Airbus A320 Flight Crashes

Post by Abbas Ali »

Flight PK8303 Captain Sajjad Gul had applied for the post of cadet pilot in response to a PIA 1989 advertisement. PIA did not select him because he failed psychiatric test in July 1990.

He lodged a complaint with Federal Ombudsman against PIA decision. After hearing the case, Federal Ombudsman ordered appointment of Sajjad Gul as cadet pilot in PIA.



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Zulfiqar
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Re: PIA Lahore to Karachi Airbus A320 Flight Crashes

Post by Zulfiqar »

Failing psychiatric test does it mean you have psychiatric issues?? Or perhaps your judgement may not be always up to the mark in stressful situations?

Wish you all good mental health.

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Re: PIA Lahore to Karachi Airbus A320 Flight Crashes

Post by fawad »

Since both FDR and CVR have been decoded, it's obvious that the team must have listened to the CVR and know the true reason why the crew acted the way they did. But there is no mention of anything in the report except that "they were talking about COVID-19"? like not even small excerpts from that conversation at critical moments?

I wonder why? My guess is they were bad-mouthing and blaming PIA or CAA.

My (layman) guess to what happened as per the report:
  • Pilots were bad-mouthing PIA management/CAA and got distracted for too long. Besides, the flight was cleared by Area Control Karachi East all the way to MAKLI at 15 NM at pilot discretion. It was first cleared for FL100, then re-cleared for FL50. Karachi Approach later cleared them for 3000ft by the time it reached MAKLI. Probably forgot and were too distracted which explains why they were at 9780ft.
  • They didn't want to do an orbit to lose altitude on the advice of the controller. It will get recorded and "look bad". We are experienced pilots and "can manage it". Plus, an inquiry may listen to what we were doing and saying. Pretend nothing happened. What does this controller know anyway? Tell him we can manage it.
  • Approach: advised again that altitude is too high...turn left.
  • Tell him we've intercepted the localizer and glideslope (a lie). We'll lose speed fast and can manage it. Select open descend, disengage auto-pilot to lose altitude fast, extend air brakes so I don't get too fast
  • Too much trust in automation to be able to handle the situation for them initially. Plugin the numbers for a fast descend, pull landing gear down at 7221 ft at 10.5 NM. Great! all numbers are plugged-in. Back to the conversation about Covid-19.
  • All alarms are going on...damn! panic situation and no checklist followed. Finally, intercepted localizer and glideslope. We're at the right fight altitude but descending too fast. Nah, put the landing gear back up as it is messing up with what I am trying to do here. We'll be stable when we are about to touch down and lower it then. Altitude is 1740ft, 5 NM from the runway, and at 243 knots.
  • These alarms are all false...they are going off simply because we descended too fast with the wrong configuration but everything will be alright right before touchdown. It's a long runway anyway. Let's continue with the approach.
  • Approach: Since the plane is continuing approach, is in a rather problematic situation (as per ATC), keep him with you. Seek clearance from the tower and give go-ahead to land. Besides, not much traffic around.
  • At 500ft, gear is still not down (they forgot), speed is 220kts, and descent rate is 2000 ft/min. Panic mode sets in, hurried decisions, and focused too much on speed and descent make them ignore all warnings including "gear not down". At the back of their minds, all warnings are due to the manual approach, descent rate, speed, etc. Besides, they did lower the landing gear earlier so it doesn't register that they pulled it back up again. Everything will be fine once we touch down.
  • Damn, we are too far down, will apply brakes, and reverse immediately. Forgot to lower the landing gear again. Engine hits...wait, what? this looks bad..GO AROUND GO AROUND GO AROUND.
  • Controller: Hey approach, this guy hit his engines. The landing gear wasn't down.
  • Approach: He must be in trouble. Obviously knows he hit the plane. Better not disturb him but offer him whatever he wants. You're cleared to land on either runway. Confirm you'll make a belly landing?
  • Pilots: What just happened? did our landing gear fail? please test it. Wait wait wait, pull it up we aren't gaining altitude. This will cause drag. OK, Request another landing. Loss of thrust. Ask him to just give us 200ft and let's go for another landing. Oh damn...oh sh*t, no power. Sir, power lost in both engines. MAYDAY MAYDAY MAYDAY.
  • Ya Allah, Ya Allah, Ya Allah.

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Abbas Ali
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Re: PIA Lahore to Karachi Airbus A320 Flight Crashes

Post by Abbas Ali »

Prime Minister Imran Khan says the way PK8303 investigation report was made public was wrong because it did not give good impression in the world.

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