PIA Lahore to Karachi Airbus A320 Flight Crashes

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A310
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Re: PIA Lahore to Karachi Airbus A320 Flight Crashes

Post by A310 »

hassan khan wrote:
Tue Jun 23, 2020 11:41 am
However, I clearly remember hearing the ATC ask the pilots if they are going to carry out a belly landing (during the 2nd approach). This suggests that infact the ATC may have been aware of the engine scraping during the 1st approach. Who told the ATC that??
The tower controller might have passed on the observation to approach controller.


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Re: PIA Lahore to Karachi Airbus A320 Flight Crashes

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Hassan777 wrote:
Tue Jun 23, 2020 3:27 pm
It's high time for the government to outsource the major airports of Pakistan,as PCAA yet has proved again how incompetent they are and PK8303 should be the final push for the government to take these airports away from PCAA , the fact that the ATC controller stayed on duty till 7 PM and also 2 planes landed on the same runway where fragments could've been present is just baffling , when do we learn that SOPs are important? PCAA is beyond salvation and it's just better to take these airports away.
Sorry to burst your bubble but air traffic control will still be run by the CAA, as it is by the FAA in the US.
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Re: PIA Lahore to Karachi Airbus A320 Flight Crashes

Post by faisal-777 »

Hassan777 wrote:
Tue Jun 23, 2020 3:27 pm
It's high time for the government to outsource the major airports of Pakistan,as PCAA yet has proved again how incompetent they are and PK8303 should be the final push for the government to take these airports away from PCAA , the fact that the ATC controller stayed on duty till 7 PM and also 2 planes landed on the same runway where fragments could've been present is just baffling , when do we learn that SOPs are important? PCAA is beyond salvation and it's just better to take these airports away.
What's also interesting is that CAA is presumably one of the government institutions making good amount of money, and hence one of the best performers when it comes to finances. (Correct me I got it wrong about their financial performance)
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Re: PIA Lahore to Karachi Airbus A320 Flight Crashes

Post by TAILWIND »

Pakistan-1 wrote:
Tue Jun 23, 2020 4:59 pm
Sorry to burst your bubble but air traffic control will still be run by the CAA, as it is by the FAA in the US.
You are right yet there are countries where aerodrome control is managed by third parties, for example DXB, SHJ and DWC in UAE. Similarly in UK, NATS manages a number of airports air traffic including Heathrow. So it is not a must the national regulator operates the ATC too.

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Re: PIA Lahore to Karachi Airbus A320 Flight Crashes

Post by Pakistan-1 »

TAILWIND wrote:
Tue Jun 23, 2020 6:16 pm
Pakistan-1 wrote:
Tue Jun 23, 2020 4:59 pm
Sorry to burst your bubble but air traffic control will still be run by the CAA, as it is by the FAA in the US.
You are right yet there are countries where aerodrome control is managed by third parties, for example DXB, SHJ and DWC in UAE. Similarly in UK, NATS manages a number of airports air traffic including Heathrow. So it is not a must the national regulator operates the ATC too.
Pakistan should look into make a Pakistan Air Traffic Services (PATS) modeled on NATS, and maybe go though with it if they are confident that it will work for Pakistan
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Re: PIA Lahore to Karachi Airbus A320 Flight Crashes

Post by Abbas Ali »

Two experienced Airbus A320 family aircraft pilots of airblue were also made part of PIA Airbus A320 flight PK8303 crash investigation, informed Aviation Minister Ghulam Sarwar in the National Assembly today.

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Re: PIA Lahore to Karachi Airbus A320 Flight Crashes

Post by Abbas Ali »

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Information from preliminary investigation report provided by Aviation Minister Ghulam Sarwar Khan in the National Assembly today.

Airbus A320 registration AP-BLD involved in the accident was 100% fit

Due to COVID-19 situation it was among grounded PIA aircraft.

The A320 returned to service on May 7 and performed flights without any problem.

Both Captain and First Officer of PK8303 were experienced and medically fit pilots.

The cockpit crew did not report any technical problem with the aircraft during final approach.

At ten nautical miles from the airport, the aircraft was flying at an altitude of 7220 feet. It should have been at an altitude of 2500 feet at that point. This was the first irregularity.

Air Traffic Control (ATC) three times informed cockpit crew about aircraft's high altitude and advised them to abandon landing approach. The cockpit crew ignored ATC advice.

The aircraft's landing gear was extended at ten nautical miles from the runway.

The aircraft's landing gear was retracted at five nautical miles from the runway.

The aircraft approached/dive at an angle of sixty degrees instead of forty degrees.

Touchdown area is from 1500 feet to 3000 feet from threshold on 11000 feet long runway.

The aircraft with retracted landing gear touched runway 4500 feet from threshold.

Aircraft engines hit/scraped runway three times. The aircraft with retracted landing gear bounced/hit runway three times. Video evidence is available.

Aircraft engines scraped 3000 feet to 4000 feet of runway. This damaged engines.

ATC failed to inform cockpit crew about runway scraped by engines.

The aircraft climbed again with damaged engines.

The cockpit crew sought permission to make another approach. The ATC issued instructions for approach and altitude.

The aircraft due to damaged engines was unable to maintain altitude and crashed into residential area.

Both cockpit crew and ATC failed to follow procedures.

Pilots were busy discussing Coronavirus in the cockpit and not focused.

When ATC advised cockpit crew about altitude, the cockpit crew replied that they will manage it and again began discussing Coronavirus.

Cockpit crew was overconfident and not focused.

Pilot's last three words were 'Ya Allah', 'Ya Allah', 'Ya Allah'.

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Last edited by Abbas Ali on Wed Jun 24, 2020 1:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Edited
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oozeman64
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Re: PIA Lahore to Karachi Airbus A320 Flight Crashes

Post by oozeman64 »

Abbas Ali wrote:
Wed Jun 24, 2020 12:40 pm
The aircraft's landing gear was extended at ten nautical miles from the runway.

The aircraft's landing gear was retracted at five nautical miles from the runway.
Thank you Abbas for the report.

The pilots apparently had extended the landing gear, but when they started 'diving' at a very high descent rate their air speed probably rose to above the gear limit, so they had to retract it to prevent overspeed (not sure if the gear gets retracted automatically, I dont believe it does), and then subsequently they either forgot to extend it again (unlikely)

Or they did extend it, but they were still going too fast therefore the gears did not extend (either at all or not in time for the runway) as they don't extend at all until the aircraft is flying below the gear speed.

The latter seems more likely

Edit: Having now seen the full report, it seems that the landing gear extension was completely forgotten after it was retracted for no obvious reason.
Last edited by oozeman64 on Wed Jun 24, 2020 4:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: PIA Lahore to Karachi Airbus A320 Flight Crashes

Post by TAILWIND »

Abbas Ali wrote:
Wed Jun 24, 2020 12:40 pm
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The aircraft approached/dive at an angle of sixty degrees instead of thirty degrees.

..........
Abbas
Donot seem correct, may be they wanted to write 6 and 3 degrees?

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Re: PIA Lahore to Karachi Airbus A320 Flight Crashes

Post by Abbas Ali »

^ I heard it again, the Aviation Minister says that the aircraft dived at sixty degrees instead of forty degrees, maybe typing error in the document or misread by the minister.

Final report to be presented within a year, most likely this year, he said.

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Re: PIA Lahore to Karachi Airbus A320 Flight Crashes

Post by Abbas Ali »

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May 22, 2020, PIA Airbus A320 (aircraft registration AP-BLD) preliminary crash investigation report prepared by Pakistan's Aircraft Accident Investigation Board (AAIB) now available on Pakistan Civil Aviation Authority (CAA) website:

Report link: https://bit.ly/2YxTE0x

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Re: PIA Lahore to Karachi Airbus A320 Flight Crashes

Post by TAILWIND »

Read the preliminary report. It seems going in the right direction, without unnecessary verbosity and gossip. And contrary to what has been reported ion media, no one blamed so far.
Lets hope they come with a good analysis of why it happened.

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Re: PIA Lahore to Karachi Airbus A320 Flight Crashes

Post by oozeman64 »

TAILWIND wrote:
Wed Jun 24, 2020 2:54 pm
Read the preliminary report. It seems going in the right direction, without unnecessary verbosity and gossip. And contrary to what has been reported ion media, no one blamed so far.
Lets hope they come with a good analysis of why it happened.
you're right, I do have a few questions though, could anyone think of a reason why the landing gear was retracted after getting onto the glideslope?? The report shows they were under the gear limit, did the pilots misinterpret the alarms?
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Re: PIA Lahore to Karachi Airbus A320 Flight Crashes

Post by faisal-777 »

It is not about 3rd party or government managed ATC. The Überlingen Disaster in 2002 happened under a 3rd party ATC which is last known major mid air collision. More like an accountability is needed
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Re: PIA Lahore to Karachi Airbus A320 Flight Crashes

Post by Squawk_1200 »

you're right, I do have a few questions though, could anyone think of a reason why the landing gear was retracted after getting onto the glideslope?? The report shows they were under the gear limit, did the pilots misinterpret the alarms?

[/quote] Brother oozeman why the aicraft manufactures put these bells whistles and sounds in the cockpit. The “ experienced “ pilots must be familiar with those. Since they were certified and type rated on A320 they know why they are there.
I hate myself for being a big mouth here ,investigation report also reflects the discipline and organization in the cockpit culture of the said airline.
This will never be out that how many hours pilots had in A320. Were they a new set of pilots captains experience was on various airplane if so then the captain knew the plane As much as copilot do . The simulator Centre and base training true records would tell that all.
Airplane is flown with brain not with stick and rudder.