PIA Lahore to Karachi Airbus A320 Flight Crashes

[Flyer1015]

@Flyer1015, I dont know why you have started debating religion, but airplanes are christened, adorned with "Allah protect you", and various other cultural/traditional rituals (I've seen examples from India and Thailand) are a regular happening. Not sure what your point there was, but you rightly add concerns about the general state of the aviation industry, challenges of nepotism, and blaming kismet. It's a very real social and cultural issue that has made its way into every line of work in Pakistan. I also believe you missed a JS B1900 on your list. There are so many extreme examples of incompetence at all levels from clerks to directors that I kid you not, when I narrate some incidences to my colleagues they think I am joking. Take the example of a certain pilot, who "forgot" to remove the gear lock pin on a walk around, costing the airline millions in fuel and a diversion - he was promoted to instructor for this act of professionalism and now teaches people to become (hopefully) better pilots. The situation has deteriorated to a point where you can either die of depression or laugh and join the lunacy, and everyone seems to be taking it in stride.

I'm not debating religion, I'm simply stating what you have just written. A lot of negative things that happen are just written off as kismet, or allah theek rakhay, or allah khair sallah. When the ATR crashed in 2016, the next flight of the ATR they sacrificed a goat. Zibbah right there on the ramp, blood flowing out. What does that tell you about the mentality of people? No action taken at PIA, the CAA, the SIB, but they did sacrifice a goat for Allah. This type of mentality and strategy will not work in preventing aviation accidents in Pakistan.

[umar744]

ATC wrong informed pilots "both runway available" but ATC should inform pilots to land Runway 25R. Better banned landing to 25L but only take off on Runway 25L but landing to Runway 25R because dangerous of house, building, etc.

[Flyer1015]

I think better any ATC staff suspended and go to court because ATC staff FAULTY forgot tell pilots to land Runway 25R right NOT 25L left because of many building near Runway 25L BUT it NOT one in ATC Karachi airport but it many other different countries ATC staff mistake communicate problem with pilots. BUT there TOO late for pilots after crashed died but better ATC staff go to court but many witness of public outside airport and need witness of any KHI airport staff. I wish KHI should install CCTV during take off & landing.

Both runways 25L and 25R are available for landing at Karachi.

Last 30 years ago my flight Qantas B747-300 approach to Sydney but Qantas 747SP disturb to took off without wait for my flight land but my pilots aborted landing and climb 500feet between Runway and 747SP then turn right keep away from 747SP then round back to landed then pilots apologised passengers about faulty between ATC and 747SP miscommunication.

Last 25 years ago my flight A321 DLH abort approach Frankfurt when USA 747 Cargo cross Runway to Taxiway then diverted to hamburg due to bad ATC and bad weather then my flight transferred to LHR from Hamburg instead of FRA.

Last 20 years ago my flight Swissair (closed down) aborted approached by ATC in Zurich airport and round hold 45 mins then tried to landed safely.

last 26 years ago my flight PIA 747 aborted approach Moscow when Aeroflot A310 approached landing then round back to landed safely then my pilots questioned Aeroflot pilot why same time approach? they said confused communicate with ATC.

All those stories above are irrelevant to this accident.

NOBODY blame PIA A320 pilots because ATC word "available for both Runway 25L & 25R" but PIA pilots tried to land out of control. CAA need improvement to install new CCTV inside ATC and install CCTV runway.

It is customary for ATC throughout the world to offer all available runways to an emergency aircraft.

Maybe perhaps pilots switched landing gear down signal 'OK" but pilots did NOT know landing gear wheels not working open because AIRBUS did NOT install CCTV of landing gear BUT ATC staff did NOT film or photo of PIA A320 touch down but outsider airport people film & photo of PIA A320 full proof. Maybe perhaps ATC staff afraid & avoid court & job loss?

ATC is not in the business of recording takeoff and landings on CCTV. Those spotters you mention do that as a hobby. The A320 has clear indications of gear down and locked, there is no need for a CCTV of the landing gear.

[Flyer1015]

ATC wrong informed pilots "both runway available" but ATC should inform pilots to land Runway 25R. Better banned landing to 25L but only take off on Runway 25L but landing to Runway 25R because dangerous of house, building, etc.

ATC cannot make up their own rules. Both Runways 25L and 25R are available for landing, so they will offer it. In an emergency it is common for ATC to offer all available runways and clear the plane to land.

[faisal-777]

ATC wrong informed pilots "both runway available" but ATC should inform pilots to land Runway 25R. Better banned landing to 25L but only take off on Runway 25L but landing to Runway 25R because dangerous of house, building, etc.

ATC is not pilot and hence cannot judge which runway would have been better. ATC did the right thing by offering both, it was upto the pilots to choose the best one.

[iTechno8]

I remember seeing CCTV cameras at Karachi Tower, they record the footage of the parking stands at the Terminals, but the runway should be visible in the background. Hopefully they can be used to see some footage of the first approach and engine scrape by the aircraft.

I hope we get to see the footage too, they can easily leak a runway inspection video, let's see if this gets leaked too.

[A310]

And I don’t want to sound derogatory or something but please try to phrase your posts in a better manner or ask someone to write them for you since it is difficult to comprehend them.

You are sounding derogatory here if i may. I am all for you questioning the content of his message but it is unacceptable to throw shade on his delivery. Even if you dont know anything about umar744, we are here to debate aviation and not the english language. If you do not understand his message, ask for a clarification. It is inappropriate to begin putting him down for his text.

Yesterday, user @A310 called me names and asked me to "shoot" myself. Today he's subjecting user @umer744 to a similar tone.

@A310: we are all here to discuss aviation in a socially acceptable manner. Having said this, I can assure you that had you known me in person you would have thought at least a few times before threatening me. On forums like these, you never know who you are talking to. Anonymity is fine but that doesn't mean indecent behavior can't result in a surprise. Take this as an advice or a warning - it's your call.

I might have gone over the line and my tone might have been harsh and I apologise for that. But then so was yours. You said yourself you can’t “mince” your words. And ask for other forum members opinion, your tone wasn’t really in a socially acceptable tone. Respect is always a two way street. Don’t expect others to mince their words when you can’t. Your choice of words provoked me to respond in that way. Lastly, as you said yourself, you never know who you are talking to so this goes for you to. Peace out!

[A310]

I apologise if you all feel I attacked the guy’s delivery. I never intended to and I tried my best to phrase myself in a respectful manner. But if you post such callous statements and have decided to blame someone for a tragedy that resulted in a loss of 100 people, don’t forget that it will prompt response. The blame part is clear, the explanation isn’t. Not very soothing for everyone.
Apologies again though.

[Abbas Ali]

French team due to arrive in Karachi on May 26.

The team will inspect crashed aircraft's engines, visit Karachi Airport runway. The team will take aircraft CVR/FDR for its decoding in France. The French team will depart from Karachi at 10:00 PM on May 26.

PIA team visited crash site in Model Colony today to assess damage suffered by houses.



CEO PIA Air Marshal Arshad Malik visited Burns Centre, Civil Hospital Karachi, where three injured residents of Model Colony are undergoing treatment. PIA has offered their medical treatment at any hospital in Pakistan.

Abbas

[Shahab]

A good description with atc conversation. There was an accompanying audio as well on whatsapp which I couldn't find on youtube. This is done by an A320 pilot with 7500 flying hours.

From this description, it was unlikely that the pilots were able to land on 25R. 25L seemed to be there best bet and tbh despite everything that went wrong, they almost made it back. If they had a few hundred more feet in height.

May Allah have mercy on all the deceased.

[nopy99]

Update from Blancolirio Youtube channel.

Pakistan International Airlines #8303 Runway Evidence- Update #3 24 May 2020

[awasi]

Did anyone hear the actual ATC conversation b/w the Pilot and the ATC ? You can download and listen on LiveATC.net. Now if you listen, one very interesting thing the pilot said "We are Comfortable, We can make inshallah". This the Pilot said prior to his Go Around remarks later in the recording. Question is that did the plane attempted to land 2 or 3 times ? And what made the pilot made the comment that he did ?

[Zulfiqar]

Did anyone hear the actual ATC conversation b/w the Pilot and the ATC ? You can download and listen on LiveATC.net. Now if you listen, one very interesting thing the pilot said "We are Comfortable, We can make inshallah". This the Pilot said prior to his Go Around remarks later in the recording. Question is that did the plane attempted to land 2 or 3 times ? And what made the pilot made the comment that he did ?

When people say it tried to land 2-3 times, do they actually mean 2-3 go -around (doubt it) or just that it bounced off the runway 2-3 times (as evidenced by engines scrapping marks up to 7000 ft on runway) which they understand to be the pilot trying to land it 2-3 times?

Also, normally wind speed and direction are relayed to the aircraft. Was that done before the first attempt?
lots of questions!

[Shahab]

Looks like the atc controller is also in the cross hairs

from https://www.express.pk/story/2044537/1/

کراچی: تحقیقاتی ٹیم نے پی آئی اے طیارہ حادثے میں ڈیوٹی پر موجود ایئرٹریفک کنٹرولر کو بھی شامل تفتیش کرلیا ہے۔

ذرائع کے مطابق تحقیقاتی ٹیم نے پی آئی اے طیارہ حادثے میں ڈیوٹی پر موجود ایئرٹریفک کنٹرولر کو بھی شامل تفتیش کرلیا ہے، دوران پرواز اپروچ کے وقت ایئر ٹریفک کنٹرولر کو ہوابازی کے بین الاقوامی قوانین کے مطابق آربٹ دینا چاہیے تھا، لینڈنگ سے قبل چیک گیئرز ان لاک کے عمل کو ہر صورت ممکن بنانا تھا۔

ذرائع کا کہنا ہے کہ پہلی ناکام لینڈنگ کے بعد ایئرٹریفک کنٹرولر کی جانب سے کپتان کو مطلع کرنا لازم تھا کہ جہاز کا انجن رن وے سے ہٹ ہوا ہے، ایئرٹریفک کنٹرولر کے فرائض میں یہ بات بھی شامل تھی کہ وہ کپتان کو انفارم کرتا کہ لینڈنگ گئیر ڈاؤن ہوا ہے یا نہیں، لینڈنگ کلیئرنس سے قبل لینڈنگ گیئر کا اہم ترین پراسیجر ائیرٹریفک کنٹرولر کی ذمہ داری ہے۔

[H Khan]

LiveATC coverage has been removed from Lahore, Peshawar and Multan; mostly following occurrences and incidents by CAA.