PIA ATR Incident at Gilgit Airport

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Airborne
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Re: PIA ATR Incident at Gilgit Airport

Post by Airborne »

I just don’t get it why people get their personal feelings in the way of righteousness, whether in favor or against that individual. One should only look into merits.

^ Before sir you accuse the CEO of anything, please be informed that the concerned lady captain’s record of previous 15 flights was taken out and she was found hot and high in all of them. As they say every day is not Sunday, she may have gotten luckier earlier till she got sucked in finally.

For God’s sake, pls call spade a spade. Would you ever put your own family on any of her flights next time?? Let CEO do what is deemed appropriate.


A310
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Re: PIA ATR Incident at Gilgit Airport

Post by A310 »

This case had to be decided on its merits and I have no
Issues if they proceed with relieving her from duties. What I’m saying is that everyone who has been at fault and caused PIA heavy losses should be relived from PIA. I still can’t see that ATR 72 flying. Hasn’t that caused PIA losses? Again I have no issues with the action taken against Capt. Maryam but with how other departments are dealt. And yes I’d point my finger again and again at the competency of this Air Martial because he said on air that all grounded fleet have been made operational while a number of dry leased ATRs are grounded at KHI airport.

TAILWIND
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Re: PIA ATR Incident at Gilgit Airport

Post by TAILWIND »

it is not uncommon in airline industry to relieve pilots involved in serious accidents due to pilot's fault, atleast from flying duties.
"....here goes my career", was caught on CVR of Air France A340 which overran YYZ few years back.

Flyer1015
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Re: PIA ATR Incident at Gilgit Airport

Post by Flyer1015 »

Airborne wrote:
Tue Aug 27, 2019 7:57 pm
I just don’t get it why people get their personal feelings in the way of righteousness, whether in favor or against that individual. One should only look into merits.

^ Before sir you accuse the CEO of anything, please be informed that the concerned lady captain’s record of previous 15 flights was taken out and she was found hot and high in all of them. As they say every day is not Sunday, she may have gotten luckier earlier till she got sucked in finally.

For God’s sake, pls call spade a spade. Would you ever put your own family on any of her flights next time?? Let CEO do what is deemed appropriate.
I'm curious how do you find the record of the previous 15 flights in terms of being hot and high? The FDR would write over itself after 24 hrs. Unless you have a QAR type box (FOQA type program) but those are supposed to be used confidentially after de-identifying the crew. Unless the FO is writing up the CA for being hot/heavy via some sort of safety reporting system?

Flyer1015
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Re: PIA ATR Incident at Gilgit Airport

Post by Flyer1015 »

A310 wrote:
Tue Aug 27, 2019 9:38 pm
This case had to be decided on its merits and I have no
Issues if they proceed with relieving her from duties. What I’m saying is that everyone who has been at fault and caused PIA heavy losses should be relived from PIA. I still can’t see that ATR 72 flying. Hasn’t that caused PIA losses? Again I have no issues with the action taken against Capt. Maryam but with how other departments are dealt. And yes I’d point my finger again and again at the competency of this Air Martial because he said on air that all grounded fleet have been made operational while a number of dry leased ATRs are grounded at KHI airport.
TAILWIND wrote:
Tue Aug 27, 2019 10:44 pm
it is not uncommon in airline industry to relieve pilots involved in serious accidents due to pilot's fault, atleast from flying duties.
"....here goes my career", was caught on CVR of Air France A340 which overran YYZ few years back.

That's not a good safety culture. If you fire someone for screwing up, all you do is create a culture of fear. Serious problems would be overlooked or swept under the rug because no one wants to get in trouble, instead of a honest system (like ASAP here in the US) in which you can admit what happened, how the mistake came about, and what should be done in the future to prevent it. That information is de-identified from the crew and then shared with everyone. People learn from others mistakes this way. The problem with Pakistan's aviation culture is the aisey chal tai / Allah khair salah. Aviation needs more than just divine intervention and prayers. Pakistan needs to change their aviation industry from the ground up. Every organization, from the CAA to the SIB needs to be overhauled.

Btw, the AF Captain ended up retiring because of his injury but if he had wanted and the union fought for him, he would have had his job back. The FO was re-trained and was back to flying. The only examples in the USA with airline pilots being fired for something flying related are cases of completely egregious and/or something purposefully or willfully negligent.

TAILWIND
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Re: PIA ATR Incident at Gilgit Airport

Post by TAILWIND »

Flyer1015 wrote:
Wed Aug 28, 2019 9:54 am
I'm curious how do you find the record of the previous 15 flights in terms of being hot and high? The FDR would write over itself after 24 hrs. Unless you have a QAR type box (FOQA type program) but those are supposed to be used confidentially after de-identifying the crew. Unless the FO is writing up the CA for being hot/heavy via some sort of safety reporting system?
I also had same question

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Re: PIA ATR Incident at Gilgit Airport

Post by TAILWIND »

Much is said about PIAs golden era of 60s and 70s while lamenting on the current dire situation the airline is, blaming political interference, quota system, govt policies etc etc. There are even claims that PIA was one of the top airlines of the world.
For an airline, safety is foremost. I went through the PIA's accident database (available in HOP website) and horrified to see that stats. Even if we leave aside period immediately post independence where a number of constellations and Dacotas crashed, below are the figures for modern era.

1. Fokker: 14 Crashes/Hull Losses, Numerous Fatalities
2. B707/720: 3 Crashes/Hull Losses, 2 Fatal
3. DC-10: 1 Hull Loss, Fire in Hangar
4. Airbus A300: 3 Crashes/Hull Losses, 1 Fatal
5. B737: 1 x Hull Loss
6. ATR 42/72: 4 Crashes/Hull Losses, 1 Fatal

Incidentally Airbus A310 is the only major type in PIA history not involved in a major incident.

pk363
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Re: PIA ATR Incident at Gilgit Airport

Post by pk363 »

TAILWIND wrote:
Fri Aug 30, 2019 9:11 pm
Much is said about PIAs golden era of 60s and 70s while lamenting on the current dire situation the airline is, blaming political interference, quota system, govt policies etc etc. There are even claims that PIA was one of the top airlines of the world.
For an airline, safety is foremost. I went through the PIA's accident database (available in HOP website) and horrified to see that stats. Even if we leave aside period immediately post independence where a number of constellations and Dacotas crashed, below are the figures for modern era.

1. Fokker: 14 Crashes/Hull Losses, Numerous Fatalities
2. B707/720: 3 Crashes/Hull Losses, 2 Fatal
3. DC-10: 1 Hull Loss, Fire in Hangar
4. Airbus A300: 3 Crashes/Hull Losses, 1 Fatal
5. B737: 1 x Hull Loss
6. ATR 42/72: 4 Crashes/Hull Losses, 1 Fatal

Incidentally Airbus A310 is the only major type in PIA history not involved in a major incident.
Alhamd o Lillah b777 fleet introduced in 2002 is also free of any major incidents till date.

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Abbas Ali
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Re: PIA ATR Incident at Gilgit Airport

Post by Abbas Ali »

Super Constellation - the first aircraft type to wear PIA livery - also ended its career with the Pakistani airline without any airframe loss.

Some years ago, Fokker company report said that main factors for PIA F27 accidents included:

* Difficult routes flown by the aircraft.
* Lesser experienced cockpit crew because it was the smallest aircraft in airline's fleet.

Maybe similar factors playing role in the accidents of PIA ATRs.

Abbas
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TAILWIND
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Re: PIA ATR Incident at Gilgit Airport

Post by TAILWIND »

pk363 wrote:
Sat Aug 31, 2019 11:04 am
Alhamd o Lillah b777 fleet introduced in 2002 is also free of any major incidents till date.
Thank you for correction

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Re: PIA ATR Incident at Gilgit Airport

Post by TAILWIND »

Abbas Ali wrote:
Sat Aug 31, 2019 11:45 am
Super Constellation - the first aircraft type to wear PIA livery - also ended its career with the Pakistani airline without any airframe loss.

Some years ago, Fokker company report said that main factors for PIA F27 accidents included:

* Difficult routes flown by the aircraft.
* Lesser experienced cockpit crew because it was the smallest aircraft in airline's fleet.

Maybe similar factors playing role in the accidents of PIA ATRs.

Abbas
You are right Abbas, especially the experience factor. Because many Fokker crashes/accidents took place in relatively normal routes i,e PEW, RAwat, LYP, DG Khan , multan etc.
I also feel experience factor is more pronounced.

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jam2k94
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Re: PIA ATR Incident at Gilgit Airport

Post by jam2k94 »

Latest pic of the aircraft at gilgit

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Jamshed Ahmad

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Abbas Ali
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Re: PIA ATR Incident at Gilgit Airport

Post by Abbas Ali »

^ Is it being repaired?

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jam2k94
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Re: PIA ATR Incident at Gilgit Airport

Post by jam2k94 »

No sign of any kind of reparation
Jamshed Ahmad

Uzair Ansari
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Re: PIA ATR Incident at Gilgit Airpo

Post by Uzair Ansari »

SM wrote:
Tue Aug 27, 2019 12:52 am
I spoke to a few contacts and have two unofficial updates from the internal grapevine:
  • PIA has been told that the cost of repairing the aircraft will be 60 to 80 crores ($3.75M to $5M). As such, within PIA, the aircraft is being seen as a likely write off.
  • The CEO is leaning towards relieving Captain Maryam Masood from her position at PIA. Colleagues have already advised Capt. Maryam Masood to resign before she is officially relieved.
As the investigation is still underway, the above information is preliminary, unofficial, and still subject to changes.

Being neutral and saying on a lighter note, the engineer who was responsible for the Hull loss of ATR72-500 AP-BKW was found not guilty for some reason. Whereas if this had happened in any other part of the world, investigators most likely would have declared the responsible person DRUNK OR A DRUGGIE. CEO being a Huge fan of PIA engineering did let that person go clean-sheet without any apparent investigations and he is back on duty doing run-ups of precious airplanes with having potential to break another aircraft. Any sane management would have filed a case against said person on a nation level.

Now talking about pilots, The Capt who was involved in Punjgur incident where the aircraft came back online after 4 days, still sitting home after a year and not been cleared to fly as yet. And now Capt Maryam is considered to be relieved ?? WHY
if that engineer can come back then why dual standards for pilots? She can maybe demoted or penalized.... Pilots has always been victims in this airline.
Happy Landings