PIA Boeing 707 Crash in Taif - Saudi Arabia

[Moin]

Wrong Moin, TWA was mistakenly shot down by US Navy and there is a big cover up, over 500 people saw something like a missile hit the aircraft.

Furnish me with a reliable source and I'll believe it only then. Not otherwise.

[ConnieMan]

Wrong Moin, TWA was mistakenly shot down by US Navy and there is a big cover up, over 500 people saw something like a missile hit the aircraft.

Furnish me with a reliable source and I'll believe it only then. Not otherwise.

Moin it dosen't matter if you believe it or not but honestly B747 simply dosen't self disintegrate, there were all sort of reports that witness saw missile or something rushing towards TWA 800 before it exploded. I can't stand the stupid documentary they made showing whole forward fuselage ahead of wing simply split off just like that!! yes that was another big cover up just to protect the US Navy as they were using live weapons for whatever they were doing. I also believe TWA 800 was blown off by US Navy's SAM.

I will try to find all the newspaper cutting i collected on TWA 800 back then.

[H Khan]

Some folks on this forum want to be aviation crash investigator without any knowledge or training in this field.

This field requires a tremendous knowledge in aviation and significant command in physics and chemical engineering.

There have been several instances that a commercial airliner disintegrated in mid-air. Lauda Air B-767-300 OE-LAV crash near Ban Nong Rong, Thailand, BOAC B-707-436 (G-APFE) near Gotemba, Japan, and MEA B-720B (OD-AFT) near Al Qaysumah, Saudi Arabia are examples to be studied.

A note on B-707 crash near Taif: The aircraft crashed seventeen minutes after the first may day call was made later disintegrated in a fiery explosion in mid-air. A Lufthansa DC-10 pilots witnessed the explosion at eight o'clock some 30 miles away.

I can write more but there are more conspiracy theorist on this thread so I rest.

[ConnieMan]

Some folks on this forum want to be aviation crash investigator without any knowledge or training in this field.

This field requires a tremendous knowledge in aviation and significant command in physics and chemical engineering.

There have been several instances that a commercial airliner disintegrated in mid-air. Lauda Air B-767-300 OE-LAV crash near Ban Nong Rong, Thailand, BOAC B-707-436 (G-APFE) near Gotemba, Japan, and MEA B-720B (OD-AFT) near Al Qaysumah, Saudi Arabia are examples to be studied.

A note on B-707 crash near Taif: The aircraft crashed seventeen minutes after the first may day call was made later disintegrated in a fiery explosion in mid-air. A Lufthansa DC-10 pilots witnessed the explosion at eight o'clock some 30 miles away.

I can write more but there are more conspiracy theorist on this thread so I rest.

Mr. H Khan,

Sir with all due respect, since you are the one with most knowledge on this subject i would ask you to please share your knowledge and experiance with us on here. I have asked you privately and publicly before but you have kept silence why i'm not sure.

As for some on here being aviation crash investigators comment, well that is not positive attitude and approach if you are trying to help in solving this mystery. There are two noticeably conspiracy stories surrounding this crash and we all know what they are, so why not clear it up for all of us who are seeking truth to this matter.

In past you mentioned my lack of knowledge on military systems as SAMs and how they operate, yes you are right i'm not fully knowledgeable about them but do understand some aspects how they operate. Can you share some light on that also so we will learn how they operate in brief.

I would appreciate your time and thoughtfulness in this matter.

Sameer

[H Khan]

I'm not a person who indulges in conspiracy theories. I take all evidences on face value even though I agree with it or not.

As I wrote earlier, aviation crash investigation is a science by itself and a person like me will do injustice to this field while rendering my opinions.

Yes, you did send me an PM asking about the air defense systems and I think you are smart enough person go to your nearest library or check the web for this information.

In a day or so Inshallah I'll write few lines that I'm aware of about this crash.

[ConnieMan]

I'm not a person who indulges in conspiracy theories. I take all evidences on face value even though I agree with it or not.

As I wrote earlier, aviation crash investigation is a science by itself and a person like me will do injustice to this field while rendering my opinions.

Yes, you did send me an PM asking about the air defense systems and I think you are smart enough person go to your nearest library or check the web for this information.

In a day or so Inshallah I'll write few lines that I'm aware of about this crash.

Thank you for your indulgence on this matter Mr. H Khan. We shall all wait responding on here till after your next post/posts on this thread.

I will seek web for more information on SAMs operations.

Note to all on here: Please don't post anything until Mr H Khan has responded as promised on here, we can all continue afterwards that is if any need left to post more. Thank you all.

Sameer

[Moin]

Wrong Moin, TWA was mistakenly shot down by US Navy and there is a big cover up, over 500 people saw something like a missile hit the aircraft.

Furnish me with a reliable source and I'll believe it only then. Not otherwise.

Moin it dosen't matter if you believe it or not but honestly B747 simply dosen't self disintegrate, there were all sort of reports that witness saw missile or something rushing towards TWA 800 before it exploded. I can't stand the stupid documentary they made showing whole forward fuselage ahead of wing simply split off just like that!! yes that was another big cover up just to protect the US Navy as they were using live weapons for whatever they were doing. I also believe TWA 800 was blown off by US Navy's SAM.

I will try to find all the newspaper cutting i collected on TWA 800 back then.

Fine, like I said, show me some credible and reliable information that proves the US Navy were so lax and careless that they chose to fire missiles in the vincinity of an eastbound commercial air corridor in which a/c pass through just about every few minutes. They have their own restricted airspace where they carry out missile tests.

I find National Geographic to be very reliable source of information and I'm sure they would not stand by a story if it carried no credibility.

[kashan]

This is a good site, read comment on bottom of the page http://users.erols.com/igoddard/TWA800/index.htm

[ConnieMan]

YU HO Mr. H Khan,

We are still waiting for your promised response from last 2 days!!...

Sameer

[captain_salman]

Mr. H Khan please share with us what ever you know on this incident! With due respect non of us here are trying to be crash-investigators, we are having a casual or informal revealing discussion about what really could have happened to that doomed PK flight. I certainly agree that if we were to formally discuss this with authourities this field requires immense research and knowledge which non of us would have to that level which is required. Therefore to unleash some unheard facts about this incident we thought of discussing this casually...

hope you'll share your information on this with us too

[ConnieMan]

H Khan where are you???

Many of us are waiting for you to enlighten us with your knowledge of this accident....

[H Khan]

This is a sanitized and a brief summary of the crash of PK Flight # 740.

PK flight #740 was a scheduled flight to Karachi originating from Kano, Nigeria with a stopover in Jeddah. The aircraft was a B-707-340C (AP-AWZ).

The flight had been airborne less than half an hour when the cabin attendant reported a fire in the aft cabin area. Seventeen minutes later, PK 740 plunged into the rocky desert while flying on a south-south-easterly heading near the city of Taif.

The airliner disintegrated in a fiery explosion after the fifth May Day call was made. From the ATC records and CVR there were five calls of May Day made by the cockpit crew. Three were made by the first officer, one by the captain and one by unknown person and this might be the the F/E.

The aircraft’s FDR yielded nothing of any significance. There was no indication of any loud sound (explosion) inside the cabin or external resonance. Due to the condition of the wreckage, the cause of the in-flight blaze that led to the crash could not be determined.

CVR provided much valuable information relative to the investigation. According to the facts from the transcript, the fire has started near the cabin door and/or near the lavatory. Someone was heard saying in Urdu “…aagh, aagh, her cheez per aagh…” Fire, fire, everything is on fire! Later, numerous other voices indicated that panic-stricken passengers had crowded forward towards the cockpit to escape the flames.

CVR data could not determine if passengers were inside the cockpit or not. This rush and stampede of passengers towards the front of the aircraft might have contributed to shifting the balance of the aircraft making it go initially into step nose dive and then later into a right spiral turn.

CVR data also confirmed that in the last two minutes of the flight the voice of only F/O and F/E could be heard along with several unidentified persons. The probability that the pilot was incapacitated by the smoke is plausible even though the cockpit crew was wearing oxygen mask. It was not known whether the passenger oxygen masks were deployed. Had they been, the release of pure oxygen in the cabin would have intensified and extended the fire.

There was clear evidence that valuable time had been lost by the cabin crew in notifying the cockpit crew about the fire, and that the captain delayed turning back the aircraft towards Jeddah. According to FDR, the aircraft kept climbing towards the assigned altitude even after making the first May Day call that the cabin had fire. However, then the pilot executed an emergency decent rate too slow under the circumstances. The pilot was also seemed preoccupied with trying to depressurize the cabin and bring the altitude to 11,000 feet.

It was also concluded that Taif ATC initially gave PK 740 incorrect descent clearance because they failed to note the minimum height for the area. With the elevation of the terrain being about 3,000 feet at the crash site, the pilot was aware of terrain restrictions. It was the pilot who corrected Taif ATC of minimum height restriction. However, the B-707 was out of control during the last 8,000 feet of the descent. . A Lufthansa DC-10 aircraft pilots witnessed the explosion at eight o'clock some 30 miles away. Even though it was standardized procedure to have different frequencies for emergencies but in Saudi Arabia this was not applied and there was clear confusion on the part of Taif ATC giving clear and precise information to PK 740.

There was no evidence of a pre-impact explosion. There was no evidence of use of incendiary devices used by previous terrorist activities. There was no evidence any traces of explosive material inside or outside of the wreckage of the PK 740. There were indications, without confirmation, that the fire was of an electrical origin.

In the wreckage small gasoline or kerosene stoves and cylinders were found. Both these cylinders and stoves might have leaked or exploded during the climb because of the pressure differential which caused the fire. Or a passenger unintentionally started to smoke near these stoves and cylinders which were leaking under the floor of the cabin.

It should be noted with interest that it was the Saudi Air Defense unit’s American made radar AN/MPQ-50 (Improved Hawk to Phase III) which pin pointed the exact location of the crash while tracking PK 740 and 21 other commericial airline flights in its area. This radar was delivered three months before the crash and it works along with American made Improved-Hawk SAM systems. The radar system was working however, the associated I-Hawk missiles were not connected with radar system yet. This radar helps separate air targets from ground clutter. Even though the exact location was relayed to Taif ATC by SAD unit in 90 seconds after the crash of PK 740, no search and rescue operation was initiated till 0600 hours local time. The aircraft crashed at 0200 hours local time.


I can write the recommendation written by PIA’s DFS and CAA to both PIA and Saudi ATC. This is if someone wants to read it.

[ConnieMan]

This is a sanitized and a brief summary of the crash of PK Flight # 740.

I can write the recommendation written by PIA’s DFS and CAA to both PIA and Saudi ATC. This is if someone wants to read it.

Mr H Khan,

We really appreciated your coming back once again and enlightening us with lacking valuable information about PK 740's demise that happened slightly under 30 years ago.

Can you write recommendations written by PIA's DFS and CAA for both airlines and also if you could PM me non-sanitized and original reports of PK 740, that would be great. I want to review them also if it's not asking too much.

I have contacted one of the senior ex-PIA pilots about this crash and i do have more questions for you to ask that i will later today during day or evening hrs my time. (It's 340AM here now)

Anyone else who wants to ask Mr H Khan any questions relating this crash are now welcome to do so as i'm sure there will be quite few.

Kind regards,
Sameer

[captain_salman]

Some more facts uncovered! Thank you H Khan for sharing this with us!

btw I would like to see the crash site on Google Earth, can anyone give me an exact position?