Security concerns and other trips

Discuss issues and news related to PIA, Pakistani airlines and Pakistan's civil & military aviation.
smhusain_1
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Security concerns and other trips

Post by smhusain_1 »

4/6/74, AP-AMG, PK 306, KHI-LHE
I was a co-pilot on a domestic flight PK 306 scheduled to operate from Karachi to Lahore. It was a AP-AMG, a B720 which held a world speed record between London and Karachi with a time of 6 hours and fifty three minutes. After the engines had been started and the doors closed, a passenger said that he wanted to get down.
The captain agreed to let him get down and instructed the staff to hold him at the airport until we landed safely at Lahore because his baggage which was still on board could not be off loaded. I was apprehensive when this discussion was going on in the cockpit between the traffic staff and the captain but kept quiet. In his place I could have taken a different decision, and felt very uneasy throughout that flight

6/4/81, PK 744, AP-AXK, NBO-DXB, DXB-KHI, 0035-0540 & 0825-1012. All time is UTC.
At Dubai on a flight from NBO to KHI, at the last minute there were 4 suitcases left on the apron. Some passengers had not reboarded after the transit there. Just the previous month a PIA scheduled flight operating from Karachi to Peshawar had been hijacked and flown to Kabul. So the practice was to board those passengers only who had identified their luggage on the tarmac beside the aeroplane.

The Station Manager told me that there would be a delay in case we tried to follow the system, but Flight Purser Nasima Khan who had initially brought this to my attention, insisted on the procedure. The passengers were deplaned onto the apron and identification carried out and unclaimed stuff removed.


20/1/75, AP-AUR, Fokker F-27, T.H. Naqvi, KHI-DXB-KWI-BEY
22/1/75, AP-AUR, Fokker F-27, T.H. Naqvi, BEY-ATH-TIP
23/1/75, AP-ATU, Fokker F-27, T.H. Naqvi, TIP-ATH-BEY
25/1/75, AP-ATU, Fokker F-27, T.H. Naqvi, BEY-BAH-KHI

Crew comprised the captain and two first officers, Humayun Ahmad (Monty) and me with a flight attendant. There were also engineering personnel on board. This was a positioning flight to Tripoli and on return we had to bring back another Fokker for routine maintenance. We night stopped at Beirut on the way and stayed at St. Georges Hotel by the sea. At Athens at departure I was sitting on the right seat and was instructed by the captain to fly the Standard Instrument Departure (SID). Captain Naqvi helped me out with the departure which besides understanding had to read back correctly to the ATC. You had to climb out over the sea and then return over the VOR and then set course.
At Tripoli we had trouble getting rooms at the Phoenicia Hotel. The Libyans eventually agreed to give us separate rooms. We also met some of PIA’s crew on deputation there during the time spent in Tripoli. The return from Tripoli was more comfortable and I remember making the landing at Beirut at night, coming over sea with the city glittering ahead.
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Abbas Ali
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Re: Security concerns and other trips

Post by Abbas Ali »

Very nice collection of writings. These should be compiled in the shape of a book.

I would like to know whether it was possible for someone on the ground to enter Boeing 707/720 flight deck through a trap door. I'm trying to find out how some of French security personnel entered PIA Boeing 720B (AP-AMG) flight deck in 1971 in their operation to overpower the hijacker at Paris-Orly Airport.

Some info about AP-AMG hijacking can be found on following link:

http://historyofpia.com/hijackings2.htm
smhusain_1 wrote:22/1/75, AP-AUR, Fokker F-27, T.H. Naqvi, BEY-ATH-TIP
Following photo shows AP-AUR in Libyan Arab Airlines livery.

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Abbas
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rayyanullah
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Re: Security concerns and other trips

Post by rayyanullah »

The "trap door" under the cockpit area led to a section of the aircraft referred to as the lower 41. This housed electrical equipment and it was the practice after push back for ground staff to store landing gear pins in this area. For some cargo/charter carriers who did not have adequate ground support it was not too uncommon for the flight engineer to enter and exit from here.
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Abbas Ali
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Re: Security concerns and other trips

Post by Abbas Ali »

^ Thank you for the info. So, it means it was possible to enter B707/720 flight deck from the ground through this trap door.

Abbas
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raihans
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Re: Security concerns and other trips

Post by raihans »

smhusain_1 wrote:20/1/75, AP-AUR, Fokker F-27, T.H. Naqvi, KHI-DXB-KWI-BEY
22/1/75, AP-AUR, Fokker F-27, T.H. Naqvi, BEY-ATH-TIP
23/1/75, AP-ATU, Fokker F-27, T.H. Naqvi, TIP-ATH-BEY
25/1/75, AP-ATU, Fokker F-27, T.H. Naqvi, BEY-BAH-KHI

Crew comprised the captain and two first officers, Humayun Ahmad (Monty) and me with a flight attendant. There were also engineering personnel on board. This was a positioning flight to Tripoli and on return we had to bring back another Fokker for routine maintenance. We night stopped at Beirut on the way and stayed at St. Georges Hotel by the sea. At Athens at departure I was sitting on the right seat and was instructed by the captain to fly the Standard Instrument Departure (SID). Captain Naqvi helped me out with the departure which besides understanding had to read back correctly to the ATC. You had to climb out over the sea and then return over the VOR and then set course.
At Tripoli we had trouble getting rooms at the Phoenicia Hotel. The Libyans eventually agreed to give us separate rooms. We also met some of PIA’s crew on deputation there during the time spent in Tripoli. The return from Tripoli was more comfortable and I remember making the landing at Beirut at night, coming over sea with the city glittering ahead.
Route seems pretty interesting, i must fly in FS
http://www.gcmap.com/mapui?P=khi-dxb-kw ... 235&SU=kts
Raihan SR Bakhsh

flickr.com/photos/raihanshahzad
EY-B77W, A345, A320, A319, EK-B773, B77W, A388, FZ-B738, GF-L1011, B732, A332, A320, A319, KU-A343, AB6, A310, A320, NL-A320, PK-B707/720, B733, B772, B77L, AB4, A310, A320, QR-A320, A321, A333, A359, A35X, B77W, B788, WY-B738, B739, A333
smhusain_1
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Re: Security concerns and other trips

Post by smhusain_1 »

Lower 41 door is just behind the nose wheel well, and is the last one to be closed after engine start by the ground person assisting. On departure from Dar-es-Salaam on a flight, I tried to line up at the intersection on the runway for takeoff instead of backtracking to the end. For this a a 180 degree turn was required, and I felt after going half way through that the main right gear would go off the edge of the runway. We contacted the tower and asked for assistance in determining whether main gear was really off the edge, and were told to wait. A PIA Ground Engineer on board the flight heard the announcement to the passengers in the cabin, and asked if he could go down through the lower 41 and confirm. There was ample space to complete the turn was his report and he directed me through hand signals in the task, and later re-entered the aircraft via the same door.
Abbas Ali wrote:^ Thank you for the info. So, it means it was possible to enter B707/720 flight deck from the ground through this trap door.

Abbas
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Abbas Ali
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Re: Security concerns and other trips

Post by Abbas Ali »

^ Thank you for the detailed info.

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raihans
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Re: Security concerns and other trips

Post by raihans »

....and that was really amazing job done by both, Captain and the ground Engineer for the maneuver :thumbs_up:
smhusain_1 wrote:Lower 41 door is just behind the nose wheel well, and is the last one to be closed after engine start by the ground person assisting. On departure from Dar-es-Salaam on a flight, I tried to line up at the intersection on the runway for takeoff instead of backtracking to the end. For this a a 180 degree turn was required, and I felt after going half way through that the main right gear would go off the edge of the runway. We contacted the tower and asked for assistance in determining whether main gear was really off the edge, and were told to wait. A PIA Ground Engineer on board the flight heard the announcement to the passengers in the cabin, and asked if he could go down through the lower 41 and confirm. There was ample space to complete the turn was his report and he directed me through hand signals in the task, and later re-entered the aircraft via the same door.
Abbas Ali wrote:^ Thank you for the info. So, it means it was possible to enter B707/720 flight deck from the ground through this trap door.

Abbas
Raihan SR Bakhsh

flickr.com/photos/raihanshahzad
EY-B77W, A345, A320, A319, EK-B773, B77W, A388, FZ-B738, GF-L1011, B732, A332, A320, A319, KU-A343, AB6, A310, A320, NL-A320, PK-B707/720, B733, B772, B77L, AB4, A310, A320, QR-A320, A321, A333, A359, A35X, B77W, B788, WY-B738, B739, A333
smhusain_1
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Location: Brampton, Ontario, Canada

Re: Security concerns and other trips

Post by smhusain_1 »

Yes it is possible. You have the proof through me if you want to believe.
raihans wrote:....and that was really amazing job done by both, Captain and the ground Engineer for the maneuver :thumbs_up:
smhusain_1 wrote:Lower 41 door is just behind the nose wheel well, and is the last one to be closed after engine start by the ground person assisting. On departure from Dar-es-Salaam on a flight, I tried to line up at the intersection on the runway for takeoff instead of backtracking to the end. For this a a 180 degree turn was required, and I felt after going half way through that the main right gear would go off the edge of the runway. We contacted the tower and asked for assistance in determining whether main gear was really off the edge, and were told to wait. A PIA Ground Engineer on board the flight heard the announcement to the passengers in the cabin, and asked if he could go down through the lower 41 and confirm. There was ample space to complete the turn was his report and he directed me through hand signals in the task, and later re-entered the aircraft via the same door.
Abbas Ali wrote:^ Thank you for the info. So, it means it was possible to enter B707/720 flight deck from the ground through this trap door.

Abbas